7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

[Lefty7mmstw]

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just curious as to why so many loads listed but so many people say that 4350 is too fast for the STW. I am always eager to learn more about reloading and shooting so input is welcome.

Edit: Also has anyone tried Hybrid 100V? I have it to, just haven't loaded any yet.[/QUOTE]

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With a bigger case you want to keep her nearly full for at least two reasons.
First is the uniformity thing; you have a lot more trouble with uniformity when the case isn't full and the powder is allowed to jostle. You might not get the same ignition every shot and a poor light could squib at cold temps.
Second it the fact that there simply isn't as much energy in the powder if you use lighter charges of faster powders. Imr single base powders all have exactly the same energy per grain, the difference being exclusively in the geometry and deterrent coatings. Most other single base offerings fall into this rule also.
Double base powders also have nitroglycerin changing output, but in rifle it is usually at or below 10% and grain size and deterrent coating are the bulk of the change here.
So put short and sweet, more powder = more energy in the powder that is accessible at a certain pressure threshold. More energy = a longer pressure peak and more time for the bullet accelerating under nearly full pressure. You can always game the system by going up in pressure, but eventually it WILL bite you.

 

[Jim Oliver]

Gonna add my 2 pesos here guys------well built (precisely fitted) rifles don't show pressure until you are way too high; sometimes the damage has been done by then.

When I bought my first 7 STW Sendero I also bought 100 Rem factory loads --140 Corelocked bullets. When I chronoed the loads, I saw about 100 fps higher velocity than the Rem catalog listed; confirmed by several tests on two different chronos. Recent Rem factory loads are slower.

Also, some of the loads Mr. Simpson listed in the original Shooting Times article were later found to be over pressure----"safe" in his rifles but over pressure none-the-less. As I recall, the load I tried was 88/H1000 with Nosler 140 Bal. Tip-----about 3500 fps with 1/2" groups as 100 yds. but with ejector marks on the case heads.

Down to 82/H1000 with the Nosler 140 Bal. Tip for 3348 fps, still 1/2" 100 yd. groups. Pretty much my standard load for the STW for southern whitetail hunting.......

Have fun and be safe.

Jim

 

[ButterBean]

Big Jake Duke, one of two things are going on here, either your chrono is off,( which I think really isn't the case), or you are running skyrocket high pressures when using the H4350 and 168's. As one gentleman to another, you are closer to burst pressure than you could ever imagine. The STW will throttle along quite happily at about 62000-65000, and will give amazing accuracy and incredible knock down power, with about any bullet weight you may choose. However, and respectfully so also, you are at or approaching 76-77000 psi at the trigger pull. Fast YES, safe NO NO !
I would recommend trying some RL25, H1000, or something in that burn rate. My hat goes to the RL25. The STW responds well to high load density loads, such as in the 79-82 grain area. Leaving a large air space above the powder opens up a secondary explosion effect, and that is nearly as destructive as a double charge.
Please be advised that I say these things in all due respect to you loading ability, but in all truth, H4350 is not a suitable powder for the STW. Good luck, and be SAFE.[/QUOTE]



I'm going to jump in here. It was me who was loading using 4350, not Big Jake Dude. He was quoting one of my posts and it didn't show up as a quote.
If someone is getting flogged for using 4350, I don't want it directed to the wrong guy.

I simply tried the loads, and got great velocity and accuracy. The average velocity over the chrony was 3320fps. None of the cases had any pressure signs at all, no flattened primers, bolt lift was one finger, nothing. I know the load probably isn't something I will stick with, but it did work well. If the pressures were in the 75000-77000 range would there not have been signs showing up?
I have several Sako's and have grow up shooting several other Sako's, they always seem to respond and shoot best when loaded hot. (usually over published max loads) They shoot these loads without pressure signs showing up. (yes, they can be loaded up to the point of pressure showing itself)

There are several loads listed using 4350 in the STW. Hornady's manual only lists it in use up to 120gr bullets. The reloading data on Hodgdon's site shows loads up to 150gr bullets, and pressures in the 53900 range, and on Loaddata.com there is loads using up to 175gr bullets and loads using160gr bullet loads in the 62000 pressure range.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just curious as to why so many loads listed but so many people say that 4350 is too fast for the STW. I am always eager to learn more about reloading and shooting so input is welcome.

Edit: Also has anyone tried Hybrid 100V? I have it to, just haven't loaded any yet.[/QUOTE]
Hybryd 100V is way way to fast

 

[Fire306]

[/QUOTE]Hybrid 100V is way way to fast[/QUOTE]


I was reading last night about Hybrid 100v, it has similar burn rates to 4350. Why if these powders are too fast is there load data readily available for the STW using them?
120 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.585" 69.0 3256 47,200 CUP 75.0 3498 53,800 CUP
139 GR. HDY SPBT Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.585" 67.0 3085 45,800 CUP 72.0 3264 52,500 CUP
145 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.565" 64.0 2959 46,600 CUP 69.0 3144 53,000 CUP
150 GR. BAR TSX Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.530" 64.0 2910 47,300 CUP 68.5 3060 52,800 CUP
160 GR. SFT SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.565" 64.0 2850 46,300 CUP 69.0 3013 52,500 CUP
175 GR. NOS PART Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.585" 64.0 2771 47,900 CUP 68.0 2883 52,900 CUP

This data is right off Hodgdon's load data site.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Hybrid 100V is way way to fast[/QUOTE]


I was reading last night about Hybrid 100v, it has similar burn rates to 4350. Why if these powders are too fast is there load data readily available for the STW using them?
120 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.585" 69.0 3256 47,200 CUP 75.0 3498 53,800 CUP
139 GR. HDY SPBT Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.585" 67.0 3085 45,800 CUP 72.0 3264 52,500 CUP
145 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.565" 64.0 2959 46,600 CUP 69.0 3144 53,000 CUP
150 GR. BAR TSX Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.530" 64.0 2910 47,300 CUP 68.5 3060 52,800 CUP
160 GR. SFT SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.565" 64.0 2850 46,300 CUP 69.0 3013 52,500 CUP
175 GR. NOS PART Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.585" 64.0 2771 47,900 CUP 68.0 2883 52,900 CUP

This data is right off Hodgdon's load data site.[/QUOTE]


Just because I CAN drive my truck at 45 mph in first gear doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it. The same rational goes with rifles, just because I can use xyz powder at 2/3 full and the gun goes bang doesn't make it a safe or uniform load.

 

[ButterBean]

Hybrid 100V is way way to fast

I was reading last night about Hybrid 100v, it has similar burn rates to 4350. Why if these powders are too fast is there load data readily available for the STW using them?
120 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.585" 69.0 3256 47,200 CUP 75.0 3498 53,800 CUP
139 GR. HDY SPBT Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.585" 67.0 3085 45,800 CUP 72.0 3264 52,500 CUP
145 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.565" 64.0 2959 46,600 CUP 69.0 3144 53,000 CUP
150 GR. BAR TSX Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.530" 64.0 2910 47,300 CUP 68.5 3060 52,800 CUP
160 GR. SFT SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.565" 64.0 2850 46,300 CUP 69.0 3013 52,500 CUP
175 GR. NOS PART Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .284" 3.585" 64.0 2771 47,900 CUP 68.0 2883 52,900 CUP

This data is right off Hodgdon's load data site.[/QUOTE]


Just because I CAN drive my truck at 45 mph in first gear doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it. The same rational goes with rifles, just because I can use xyz powder at 2/3 full and the gun goes bang doesn't make it a safe or uniform load.[/QUOTE]Lefty,I could not have said any better than that, I like the 100V but There is no way I would even think about loading an Stw wsith it after I have seen how it acts in a 22-250.........Way too much bang

 

[7stw]

Well, I'm sorta gettin' the feeling that I may have "ruffled a few feathers" in the hood!!!! Just to be clear, my intention was to convey that yes, there are powders that CAN be shot in this round, that are not OPTIMAL, but not to say you can't. Additionally, I just have this thing about wanting to not have my bolt shear past my face at " Mach II" when I pull the trigger. Haven't had it happen to me, don't want it. High pressure peaks, and spikes do fatigue actions and bolt lugs. I prefer to smooth out the pressure curve, and stay inside 65,000 psi, and prolong my rifles life, and mine!! Take from my statement whatever you will, but no harm intended or implied. One thing about it, no harm will come to me.

 

[Fire306]

I said it before, I am doubtful I will use the 4350 load. It was a trial. I understand the logic everyone is explaining to me why it may not be the best powder (including Hybrid 100V). The confusing part to me is why they publish these powders as usable powders when they may not be safe.
Thanks for everyone's input. That's the great part of these forums. There is a vast amount of knowledge just waiting to be shared.
I may experiment with the Hybrid in my 280 and 260. I've had excellent results from 4350 in the 280 Remington.

I received my head space gauge today from Innovative Technologies (Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment), which I've been waiting for before loading anymore. I will load up a ladder test with H1000, Retumbo and possibly RL-22 and see what I end up with. I will post my results.

Edit: 7stw I just seen your post, you must have posted while I typed this one. No offense taken on my end if it was me you are referring to.

 

[7stw]

I said it before, I am doubtful I will use the 4350 load. It was a trial. I understand the logic everyone is explaining to me why it may not be the best powder (including Hybrid 100V). The confusing part to me is why they publish these powders as usable powders when they may not be safe.
Thanks for everyone's input. That's the great part of these forums. There is a vast amount of knowledge just waiting to be shared.
I may experiment with the Hybrid in my 280 and 260. I've had excellent results from 4350 in the 280 Remington.

I received my head space gauge today from Innovative Technologies (Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment), which I've been waiting for before loading anymore. I will load up a ladder test with H1000, Retumbo and possibly RL-22 and see what I end up with. I will post my results.

Edit: 7stw I just seen your post, you must have posted while I typed this one. No offense taken on my end if it was me you are referring to.

Fire306, no harm done, no foul meant. And yes it was to you my reply was meant to address. Somehow, the threads and replies got mixed up, and I didn't know who I was " talking" to.
Well, your powder selections are great ones, and I might want to recommend 7828 as well. That stuff is awesome in, and up to 160 grains, but really does well with 140-150 grain bullets.
As far as the Hybrid 100 goes, my partner in crime uses it in a few things, and swears by it. I would imagine that in the 280, ( another sweetheart of a bullet), it will do just fine. All the best to you, and I'm glad things were understood, and not mis- construed as it could have been. It is all good. Keep us all posted.

 

[Kado101]

I just found this thread while looking for 7 mm STW info. in April I purchased my first STW-a nib Winchester model 70 Classic SS then a month ago I found a Weatherby Mark V. Synthetic in 7 mm STW has a Monarch 5.5 x 6.5 x 44 on it. Also has a muzzlebrake. I couldn't resist at $650. Today I put a Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40 on the Winchester. I hope to get some range time soon. I will shoot some factory loads to break in the Winchester then reload the brass for both guns. Good info here Thanks.



Remington 700SPS SS 257 Weatherby Magnum
Kimber 8400 Classic 300 WSM
Weatherby Mark V 240 Weatherby Magnum

 

[etisll40]

The deals on 7 stw out there are incredible. If it said 300 Weatherby it would be a thousand more. Yet a simple barrel change will get you there. Go figure? Not a bad switch barrel powerhouse.

 

[etisll40]

On these powders, my gut says call the company. Ask them if they have done testing and what the psi is on the loads are. If they haven't and are publishing them, then I'd be real careful.

 

[Jim Oliver]

Lots of different powders are "usable" and safe (with correct charges); fewer powders are "optimum".

The faster powders can be useable and safe, but far from the best choice, considering load density and the very important pressure/time curve.

For light (for caliber) bullets, the quicker burning powders can be used, but even with the light bullets, the slower burning powders ar usually better.

 

[7stw]

I just found this thread while looking for 7 mm STW info. in April I purchased my first STW-a nib Winchester model 70 Classic SS then a month ago I found a Weatherby Mark V. Synthetic in 7 mm STW has a Monarch 5.5 x 6.5 x 44 on it. Also has a muzzlebrake. I couldn't resist at $650. Today I put a Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40 on the Winchester. I hope to get some range time soon. I will shoot some factory loads to break in the Winchester then reload the brass for both guns. Good info here Thanks.



Remington 700SPS SS 257 Weatherby Magnum
Kimber 8400 Classic 300 WSM
Weatherby Mark V 240 Weatherby Magnum

Kado, if no one has told you yet, WELCOME TO THE BROTHERHOOD! I too, recently invested in a Winchester model 70, in 7 MM STW, but the one I got is a Custom Sharpshooter, out of Wincesters custom shop. Beautiful rifle, and a shooter to boot.
You are in good company here, as many of us own more than one. They are truly awesome once you learn what they want, and you get your load down to a science. As you know, they will flat out smoke a deer, and are are really flat shooting. With some bullets, they are nearly as flat, if not AS flat as a 22-250. Enjoy the ride, and know that the information wealth here is plentiful, and also, you have a couple of fine rifles there to enjoy.