any where from dime sized to one hole at 100 yards 3 to 5 shots most of time 3 shots . I load 3 rounds and do about 5 different test rounds then I do 5 rounds out of the the 2 best 3 rounds group and fps that normaly works for me I do load for lot of different guns I goof around with . this is one of my shooters I don't jump around on group size to much and I got another custom 22-250 that the fps within 10 fps but it shots any thing I throw at it better then a 1/2 at 100 yards but the load I use in it pretty much 1 hole if I do my part . then got a stock 788 222 that the fps within 2 to 10 fps but about 1/2 groups at 100 yards but funny thing is I shot the same load I use in the 222 in another 222 I have and got 1 fps differents (5 shots ) and I didn't weight cases or any thing in it or the 788 and they still have good fps spread and on new brass . I did anneal the brass on the stw
7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner
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Bud I have said this on here a bunch of times and this is My opinion .....If its grouping ( which yours is) the only number I look at is the FPS to figure Ballistics .....the ES is just a number and as I said if its shooting like House on Fire I could care less what it is......Like I said I dont even look at it
Rent Outdoor Gear
Well-Known Member
Brotherhood! Hey guys, I feel like I know you all from reading 460 pages now of the STW thread! This is my second post - my first was in the STW reloading thread (no reply so pretty much re-posting here).
I've got a decent Rem 700 STW (one of the newer SPS's) with a bell and Carlson stock on it from Redhawk. It shoots Nosler Custom 160 gr. Accubonds really-really good, but I have a buddy that reloads and we're in process of working up some loads for the 168 grain Accubond LR's. This rifle was supposed to be a project that I planned to re-barrel, but apparently I got lucky.
http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r743/dcarcher72/PhotoMar09100923PM_zps32e65a98.jpg
This is my first time working up a load for any rifle so any suggestions in developing loads and laddering up would be appreciated. The starting point, powder, primer, etc... all came from knowledge gathered here.
For the first go round he loaded me up a 15 shells in groups of 3 at various charges of H1000 with Fed 215 primers in Nosler Brass from 74 grains up to 78 all at what I think was the same length as the stock Nosler Custom 160AB's that shot very well (I think he noted it as 3.651").
I got a good tight group 0.466" center to center at 75 grains and things were coming together again at 78 grains with a decent group a little over 1" but very little vertical spread (maybe 3/8"). It was windy L-R 10 - 15mph. I had no pressure signs at 78. Where do y'all expect the top end charge to be on this bullet with H1000? We'll work up gradually but don't want to miss a good load by stopping too soon and also don't want to load up a bunch of stuff that's too hot and will have to be pulled.
http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r743/dcarcher72/ABLR168-H1000-75gr_zps6bc24e19.jpg
My chrono is down, but will be back in business for my next session so I can report back with velocity info next time.
Not sure if we should now go back to 75 & 78 grains and vary powder in 0.1 or 0.2 grain increments or if I should vary seating depth with the best load we had - then vary powder after seating depth.
Or... should I just load up about 9 of those 75 grain loads and see if it will consistently shoot like that? I can't imagine a factory STW can really shoot much better than 1/2 MOA, I do trust this rifle though - I have shot several sub 1/2 MOA groups with this thing at extended ranges from 250 - 780 yards with the nosler customs and have shot it out beyond 1000 yards with deadly accuracy. I painstakingly broke in the barrel and it seems to have paid off.
Thanks in advance and thanks for all the great info. Like I said - I have read the thread thru 460 pages now and just finished reading the 32 pages of the reloading thread. I will burn through the last 90 pages so I'll be current ASAP. Looking forward to being part of the crew here!
Coop
I've got a decent Rem 700 STW (one of the newer SPS's) with a bell and Carlson stock on it from Redhawk. It shoots Nosler Custom 160 gr. Accubonds really-really good, but I have a buddy that reloads and we're in process of working up some loads for the 168 grain Accubond LR's. This rifle was supposed to be a project that I planned to re-barrel, but apparently I got lucky.
http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r743/dcarcher72/PhotoMar09100923PM_zps32e65a98.jpg
This is my first time working up a load for any rifle so any suggestions in developing loads and laddering up would be appreciated. The starting point, powder, primer, etc... all came from knowledge gathered here.
For the first go round he loaded me up a 15 shells in groups of 3 at various charges of H1000 with Fed 215 primers in Nosler Brass from 74 grains up to 78 all at what I think was the same length as the stock Nosler Custom 160AB's that shot very well (I think he noted it as 3.651").
I got a good tight group 0.466" center to center at 75 grains and things were coming together again at 78 grains with a decent group a little over 1" but very little vertical spread (maybe 3/8"). It was windy L-R 10 - 15mph. I had no pressure signs at 78. Where do y'all expect the top end charge to be on this bullet with H1000? We'll work up gradually but don't want to miss a good load by stopping too soon and also don't want to load up a bunch of stuff that's too hot and will have to be pulled.
http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r743/dcarcher72/ABLR168-H1000-75gr_zps6bc24e19.jpg
My chrono is down, but will be back in business for my next session so I can report back with velocity info next time.
Not sure if we should now go back to 75 & 78 grains and vary powder in 0.1 or 0.2 grain increments or if I should vary seating depth with the best load we had - then vary powder after seating depth.
Or... should I just load up about 9 of those 75 grain loads and see if it will consistently shoot like that? I can't imagine a factory STW can really shoot much better than 1/2 MOA, I do trust this rifle though - I have shot several sub 1/2 MOA groups with this thing at extended ranges from 250 - 780 yards with the nosler customs and have shot it out beyond 1000 yards with deadly accuracy. I painstakingly broke in the barrel and it seems to have paid off.
Thanks in advance and thanks for all the great info. Like I said - I have read the thread thru 460 pages now and just finished reading the 32 pages of the reloading thread. I will burn through the last 90 pages so I'll be current ASAP. Looking forward to being part of the crew here!
Coop
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
To Coopdawg, if you are tossing sub 1/2 moa groups with your pet load I'd toss a box together at a charge that seems to shoot well and see if she holds for a few groups in a row at 200 yards or more. Prove that puppy and go kill with it. The stw seems to like a bit of run to the lands so if she shoots call it and don't play with seating depth.
I'll second that
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Like Lefty said, I'd go with the .466" load and prove them at longer distances. If they shoot good at 200, I'd roll with those. It's rare you get a cheaper sporter SPS to shoot 1/2 MOA, especially in a big magnum caliber from all the harmonics in the barrel.
I think you've about found that rifle's sweet spot.
My buddy has the same rifle as you, but in a .300 WinMag, and he got a good one, too, because with handloads we got his shooting 1/2 MOA groups with several loads. He was wanting to rebarrel his to a heavy barrel, but after tinkering with handloads and getting it to shoot 1/2 MOA, he's gonna keep it for a lightweight whitetail rig.
I think you've about found that rifle's sweet spot.
My buddy has the same rifle as you, but in a .300 WinMag, and he got a good one, too, because with handloads we got his shooting 1/2 MOA groups with several loads. He was wanting to rebarrel his to a heavy barrel, but after tinkering with handloads and getting it to shoot 1/2 MOA, he's gonna keep it for a lightweight whitetail rig.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
If it were me I'd load up nine of those at each weight and go out on as calm a day as possible and set up a 300yds target.
Let the rifle cool down completely between each three round group.
take the average from each weight/charge and see which gives you the best accuracy.
You can tweak up and down with whichever gives you the best results until you find that sweet spot between accuracy and speed.
Once you've done that as long as you are seeing zero pressure signs, you can adjust your seating depth outward a couple of thousandths at a time and see if that tightens it up even further.
Unless you plan on shooting prairie dogs beyond six hundred yards anything under 1 MOA is acceptable especially in an SPS.
Question, have you done a complete float and bedding job? Does it have an aluminum bedding block or factory pillars installed?
If you haven't done the floating and bedding I would not mess with anything else until that is done because your results over the long term are likely to be very inconsistent particularly with changes in temperature and humidity.
Rent Outdoor Gear
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice fellas - I think I will have him load another dozen or so at 75 grains and do some longer range testing on a good calm morning at 250 - 300 yards to see if that load will consistently shoot sub MOA.
I have not bedded the action or done anything besides gently break in the barrel and shoot and clean thus far. The barrel is floated.
It's no prairie dog gun - I wanted to build a 1/2 MOA STW for a long range wolf gun. http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r743/dcarcher72/CoopDog1-email_zps29df37ab.jpg
That is also why I selected the 168 accubond LR's to try out. The rifle does not seem to like Bergers and based on what I've read I think the accubond is probably a better big game bullet in the STW. I almost always bowhunt so not really planning to shoot anything but predators, but ya never know.
The sporter barrel on mine will only shoot two shots before the heat gets to it so I always space my shots out and I have used canned air to help cool the barrel in between shots. Like I said - I never really planned on keeping the barrel, but it turned out to be a pretty good shooter and it's light!
I have not bedded the action or done anything besides gently break in the barrel and shoot and clean thus far. The barrel is floated.
It's no prairie dog gun - I wanted to build a 1/2 MOA STW for a long range wolf gun. http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r743/dcarcher72/CoopDog1-email_zps29df37ab.jpg
That is also why I selected the 168 accubond LR's to try out. The rifle does not seem to like Bergers and based on what I've read I think the accubond is probably a better big game bullet in the STW. I almost always bowhunt so not really planning to shoot anything but predators, but ya never know.
The sporter barrel on mine will only shoot two shots before the heat gets to it so I always space my shots out and I have used canned air to help cool the barrel in between shots. Like I said - I never really planned on keeping the barrel, but it turned out to be a pretty good shooter and it's light!
Haven't been on here in a long time, but I'm pretty sure I've never posted to this thread (I didn't look through all 500+ pages). I have a custom lefthanded stainless/synthetic Browning A-Bolt, 26" Hart barrel plus removable muzzle brake. Bought the rifle as 375 H&H with nine rounds fired through it, almost hated to revamp it, but I bought it specifically for the action to build an STW on, so I had the action trued, the new barrel and everything bedded in the factory stock because it fit me so well. I don't recall the barrel profile offhand, but it is the same profile as the factory H&H barrel, which with that long barrel makes it a tad muzzle heavy, but not bad. I have a Leupold 6.5-20x40 Vari-X III on it that I sent back to Leupold and had the MK II turrets installed on. That is the one thing I am unhappy with on the rifle, if I had it to do over with again I would spend the extra money and put a Leupold Mark IV on it, probably in 4.5x14. Not at all impressed with the Vari-x III, I have a twenty year old Vari-x compact that has FAR superior glass than the Vari-x III and was supposedly a much cheaper line of scope. Also the eye relief on Vari-x III is pretty touchy (probably partially due to the high magnification and large variable range). I have the trigger set at just a hair over 2 pounds, so there isn't much problem with pulling off target on those long shots. I shoot 180 gr. Berger VLDs in front of a load of RE-25. 7828 and Ramshot magnum gave a little more velocity, but RE-25 held the edge on accuracy, and 3100 fps is probably fast enough with a 180 pill. 
Shooting those long Berger's you have to reach out there to really judge the accuracy, at a hundred yards it won't even group minute of angle, but at 200 it is well under MOA and at 300 it routinely throws groups around half-MOA (actually as tight as the 100 yard groups, if the targets aren't labeled you can't tell the difference between the 100, 200, and 300 yard targets). I originally built it for mule deer, but have actually shot more elk than deer with it. I head shot (only part of the deer I could see) a 160 whitetail at 350 yards with it last year, out my upstairs window. And have shot 5 elk at over 500 with it. Last week I made my longest shot yet on an elk, 820 yards. I don't have a place to shoot over 700 handy, so hadn't really tested it at that range, but dialed it in and put two shots through the part in the hair on the brisket, right where I was aiming and less than an inch apart, so it's still holding good out that far. I felt much steadier laying on the rock pinnacle I was on resting over my pack than I do off my portable bench that I shoot my test groups off of, so it is possible the gun will shoot better than I stated if I was to use a better bench.
Shooting those long Berger's you have to reach out there to really judge the accuracy, at a hundred yards it won't even group minute of angle, but at 200 it is well under MOA and at 300 it routinely throws groups around half-MOA (actually as tight as the 100 yard groups, if the targets aren't labeled you can't tell the difference between the 100, 200, and 300 yard targets). I originally built it for mule deer, but have actually shot more elk than deer with it. I head shot (only part of the deer I could see) a 160 whitetail at 350 yards with it last year, out my upstairs window. And have shot 5 elk at over 500 with it. Last week I made my longest shot yet on an elk, 820 yards. I don't have a place to shoot over 700 handy, so hadn't really tested it at that range, but dialed it in and put two shots through the part in the hair on the brisket, right where I was aiming and less than an inch apart, so it's still holding good out that far. I felt much steadier laying on the rock pinnacle I was on resting over my pack than I do off my portable bench that I shoot my test groups off of, so it is possible the gun will shoot better than I stated if I was to use a better bench.Haven't posted here in quite a while but I keep up with the thread. Have been too busy to shoot the past several months. Anyway, I just want to give the boys at RedHawk another plug. I have yet to hear of anyone who has one of their rifles that doesn't shoot 1/2 MOA or better. Mine is a semi custom with a Douglas barrel, B&C stock, factory Rem trigger and it shoots under 1/2 MOA with everything I've put down the tube so far, some loads WELL under that. On top of that is that it is very light weight.
The 180 Bergers are so long they won't stabilize and shoot well in a lot of factory barrels due to the twist. I forget what the twist is now in my barrel, but I specifically ordered a barrel with the optimum twist for those bullets, and it will shoot other long heavy bullets well also, but I have never tried any light bullets in it. I have a bunch (gallon ziplok baggy full) of 115 gr. hollowpoints a friend gave me that I have been intending to load up for plinking and screwing around doing things like shooting ground squirrels, but I haven't loaded any yet to see how they shoot. The Bergers don't particularly impress me on game, they have killed everything I shot with them fine, but I have never knocked down even a deer, much less an elk with them unless I shot it in the spine or head. I use them for their fabulous long range ballistics, performance in wind and accuracy, if I was looking for the best DRT performance I would probably use something like a Grand Slam (which are also very accurate, my 270 shoots groups with them half again as tight as any other bullet you feed it)
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I would free float and pillar bed it before wasting any more time on working up a load. The odds of it shooting any better than it is already without doing the above are very slim and it could get frustrating for you in a hurry.Haven't been on here in a long time, but I'm pretty sure I've never posted to this thread (I didn't look through all 500+ pages). I have a custom lefthanded stainless/synthetic Browning A-Bolt, 26" Hart barrel plus removable muzzle brake. Bought the rifle as 375 H&H with nine rounds fired through it, almost hated to revamp it, but I bought it specifically for the action to build an STW on, so I had the action trued, the new barrel and everything bedded in the factory stock because it fit me so well. I don't recall the barrel profile offhand, but it is the same profile as the factory H&H barrel, which with that long barrel makes it a tad muzzle heavy, but not bad. I have a Leupold 6.5-20x40 Vari-X III on it that I sent back to Leupold and had the MK II turrets installed on. That is the one thing I am unhappy with on the rifle, if I had it to do over with again I would spend the extra money and put a Leupold Mark IV on it, probably in 4.5x14. Not at all impressed with the Vari-x III, I have a twenty year old Vari-x compact that has FAR superior glass than the Vari-x III and was supposedly a much cheaper line of scope. Also the eye relief on Vari-x III is pretty touchy (probably partially due to the high magnification and large variable range). I have the trigger set at just a hair over 2 pounds, so there isn't much problem with pulling off target on those long shots. I shoot 180 gr. Berger VLDs in front of a load of RE-25. 7828 and Ramshot magnum gave a little more velocity, but RE-25 held the edge on accuracy, and 3100 fps is probably fast enough with a 180 pill.
Do that and I think you'll end up very pleased very quickly.
Plus 1
Assuming you quoted me by mistake and are actually replying to someone else. My rifle is free floated and bedded, and I have already worked up a load I like. (Which doesn't mean I may not try and work up more when I have time to tinker with it)
