6mm Creed or .243???

[David Emerson]

I hate to burst your bubble but it was just a SAAMI spec chamber, and the rifle was assembled by your's truly back in 2007. I did ask for a special throat but McGowen told me at that time I just got the standard .243 Win reamer.

Stevens 200 CF action
Savage Pre-Fit .243 Win 26" Heavy Varmint McGowen 1:7 twist
Stockade tactical bolt handle, recoil lug, and lift kit
SSS Competition trigger
EGW 20 MOA base
Leupold QRW rings
Vortex Viper 6.5-20X50 PA
HS Precision stock and Savage bottom metal with detachable mag

In your defense I never tried seating to kiss the lands and it may of shot better there, I wanted to use the magazine. I just ran Berger's seating depth test per their instructions and I tried it with the DTAC bullets to see if it would work as well. Both the 105 and 115 Berger's and the 115 DTAC shot better with a lot of jump. Your experience may differ, but every rifle is different and you have to find what works.

I am amazed it shot groups like that.

 

[David Emerson]

If the parallel throat is the secret to the accuracy of the Creeds, then why not change the specs on the chamber reamers of other cartridges?

Shoot me if I am wrong but the last time Remington used one was the 280. Winchester uses the funnel because they are always trying for max length in a short box.

 

[Equalizer]

I'm not. Btw two different rifles.

 

[David Emerson]

Haven't looked recently at SAAMI but I think a 243 Win may have a parallel throat as designed....

Nope. 1 degree 30 minutes funnel

 

[freddiej]

I have nothing to add to this thread so I will munch popcorn and read. I like the 243 win. the 6 creed is not known to me. I can not give pros or cons.

I have never had luck with the .243" or any 6MM. for that matter any .284"/7MM cartridge. I have only had good success with one .264"/6.5MM cartridge. that would be the 264 Win Mag. all the rest have been a blight on my life.

now back to reading...

 

[David Emerson]

If the parallel throat is the secret to the accuracy of the Creeds, then why not change the specs on the chamber reamers of other cartridges?

Once a cartridge hits saami and it is standardized by them it is the kiss of death for any change. But I have encountered Remingtons with a much longer than spec throat. Lawyers! Lengthen the throat to reduce pressure.

 

[geocodyrgia]

Bought a Ruger Precision but went 6 Creed because I felt the case capacity of the Creedmoor was a better fit for a 110-ish weight bullet than a 140 and as bullet technology advances I expect them to get HEAVIER for caliber not lighter. I've never owned a .243 but the 6 Creed has been a great little round for me. Rediculously accurate out of the box for a factory gun and I've been running 108 ELD's since I got it. Will probably be getting a new barrel for it before next year and plan to go to the 115 DTAC's and ADG brass when I switch barrels, but the Hornady brass and 108 ELD's still shoot better than I can. 100 pieces of Hornady brass with probably 6 loadings on them now have only had the primer pockets loosen up in about 10-12 of them and I ran it pretty darn hard looking for top end pressure in a couple different powders. All-in-all, the 6 Creed is good enough I'll probably rebarrel the RPR to a Criterion 6 Creed Match pre-fit when the time comes.

 

[ducky]

Haven't looked recently at SAAMI but I think a 243 Win may have a parallel throat as designed....

Nope. 1 degree 30 minutes funnel

Which happens to be the exact same throat on a 6.5 and 6 Creedmoor according to the SAAMI prints. I guess I don't know where you're getting the parallel throat info from, but I don't think it's a good idea to go from the free bore into the lands without a little taper. I'm not saying the Creedmoor isn't a better designed cartridge, because I think it is. Just what you state about the .243 not being able to jump to the lands isn't entirely factual.

 

[Ranger1994]

Very interesting discussion so far, wished I could add to the comparison part of it. But no creedmoors in the stable at this time, although seriously considering a 6.5 prc. Now what I can speak to is the venison in the freezer from my factory 243. "It will kill" them DRT every time I do my job within the limits of my abilities, with 95 gr Nosler BT. All I can say is in my experience the venison sure taste good.

I'm a reloader with a little experience, can someone explain what a parallel throat is? I get freebore and all that, just never heard of a parallel throat. Thanks

 

[David Emerson]

Which happens to be the exact same throat on a 6.5 and 6 Creedmoor according to the SAAMI prints. I guess I don't know where you're getting the parallel throat info from, but I don't think it's a good idea to go from the free bore into the lands without a little taper. I'm not saying the Creedmoor isn't a better designed cartridge, because I think it is. Just what you state about the .243 not being able to jump to the lands isn't entirely factual.

A parralel throat has a cylinder section of some distance before a 1 degree 30 to 3 degrees sometimes. In other words let,s use a 6mm bullet. I Just looked and the 6 creed has a section of .200 at .2435 before the 1 1/2 degree throat . Now understand this is all throat. Basically no rifling for .2 before the 1 1/2 degree step down to full land engagement. So. Long bullets you want to seat out farther so they are not so deep in the case? No problem. Plus with the long area that is .0005 over bullet diameter guides the bullet to a square engagement and is just a better design in my mind. I once had a 264 Winchester. I took it to a smith and asked him to throat it out so I did not have to seat so deep. GOD did it shoot. The whole bullet was in the bore before it hit the lands so it was perfectly in line. Now I did not ask him to throat it that deep But I got what I got. He screwed up. So that always stuck in my mind. You have heard of Dave Kiff with PTG I am sure. He came up with what is called a bore rider throat. He can set the parralel section wherever you want it. Then a 1.5 degree step down to only half the rifling height that ususally goes for about a half inch then another 1.5 step to full rifling engagement. Usually pick up 100 to 150 fps and shoot very very well and not fussy about oal. Go to Saami and look at the 6.5x300 weatherby. Ed flew up to see Dave and told him I need 150 feet so Dave made a reamer with the bore rider throat. To beat the speed of the 26 nosler. Only drawback is it will not go as long as a regular throat because only half the rifling height. I hope I have helped

 

[David Emerson]

Very interesting discussion so far, wished I could add to the comparison part of it. But no creedmoors in the stable at this time, although seriously considering a 6.5 prc. Now what I can speak to is the venison in the freezer from my factory 243. "It will kill" them DRT every time I do my job within the limits of my abilities, with 95 gr Nosler BT. All I can say is in my experience the venison sure taste good.

I'm a reloader with a little experience, can someone explain what a parallel throat is? I get freebore and all that, just never heard of a parallel throat. Thanks

Parralel is the freebore section. A funnel throat has no freebore

 

[David Emerson]

Terminology. Parralel throat has freebore

 

[David Emerson]

A parralel throat has a cylinder section of some distance before a 1 degree 30 to 3 degrees sometimes. In other words let,s use a 6mm bullet. I Just looked and the 6 creed has a section of .200 at .2435 before the 1 1/2 degree throat . Now understand this is all throat. Basically no rifling for .2 before the 1 1/2 degree step down to full land engagement. So. Long bullets you want to seat out farther so they are not so deep in the case? No problem. Plus with the long area that is .0005 over bullet diameter guides the bullet to a square engagement and is just a better design in my mind. I once had a 264 Winchester. I took it to a smith and asked him to throat it out so I did not have to seat so deep. GOD did it shoot. The whole bullet was in the bore before it hit the lands so it was perfectly in line. Now I did not ask him to throat it that deep But I got what I got. He screwed up. So that always stuck in my mind. You have heard of Dave Kiff with PTG I am sure. He came up with what is called a bore rider throat. He can set the parralel section wherever you want it. Then a 1.5 degree step down to only half the rifling height that ususally goes for about a half inch then another 1.5 step to full rifling engagement. Usually pick up 100 to 150 fps and shoot very very well and not fussy about oal. Go to Saami and look at the 6.5x300 weatherby. Ed flew up to see Dave and told him I need 150 feet so Dave made a reamer with the bore rider throat. To beat the speed of the 26 nosler. Only drawback is it will not go as long as a regular throat because only half the rifling height. I hope I have helped

I built a short Remington in 6mm rem ackley improved with the bore rider throat. I blueprinted it and screwed on a #4 3 groove lilja 8 twist. Just a wood stocked glass bedded hunting rifle for a customer. I shot it 5 times and cleaned it then banged off 3 to foul it and let it cool and sat down at the bench. I never had a 6 rem ack imp. I just looked in the sierra book and loaded their accuracy load with the 100 GK. lol 3 shots went .176. An oblong hole at 100. That bullet was jumping a long ways.

 

[David Emerson]

To get a good understanding of throat desing. If you can find it is a book written by Art Alphin of A Square. He was a ballistician for the Army before be started his rifle company. Excellent reading. Everything from little to a 105 howitzer.