.460 S&W Mag in a bolt action rifle?

engineer40

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What most of you probably already know is the 460 SW Mag is the highest velocity handgun cartridge around.

In the part of Michigan where I whitetail hunt, it's shotgun or pistol caliber rifles only. And I believe I also heard parts of Ohio are like this so there may be a larger audience for my questions.

MI law states "A .35 caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches."

The only factory offerings I could find are Thompson Center single shots or a $2,800 level action offered by someone else. I'm not really interested in either.

If this was something you guys wanted to do; what bolt action platform would you start with? (From what I could find, I don't believe the Remington 700 was ever offered for a rimmed cartridge, but maybe it would still be possible to get the magazine and bolt to work properly?).

Would a gunsmith be able to find or rework a bolt face to accommodate the dimensions of the 460's rimmed cartridge?

Thanks everyone. I've been researching for a couple days. Seems like the more I read the more questions I come up with.
 

engineer40

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Oh one more thing... I would be building this as a gift for my Dad. So my reasons for asking are altruistic. Thanks!
 

J E Custom

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I built my brother in law a 460 on a Remington 700 action and it was a lot of work because of the rim.

I would suggest you build it on any action that has a flat faced bolt so setting up the bolt and barrel for extraction would be easier. (NO RECESS BOLT).

The Thompson Center Carbine would be the easiest way to go

Also the twist on the 460 pistol is to slow for the rifle and a faster twist is needed for a rifle and there potential distance (300 to 400 yards).

The other problem is with barrel diameter.
The 460 pistol bullets are .452 diameter.
The 45 caliber rifle bullets are .458

So you will have to find a barrel maker that will have a .452 bore in a 1 in 14 twist at least 20'' long
to get it to perform (Be accurate)past 75 to 100 yards.

It is a fun rifle but difficult to put all the right parts together.

J E CUSTOM
 
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engineer40

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IB built my brother in law a 460 on a Remington 700 action and it was a lot of work because of the rim.

Hey J E Custom; if I did the leg work to gather up all of the components, would you be interested in building a similar one for a paying customer?

It would probably take you 1/3 the time to do it the second time around. :D

I can PM you if you are interested. Thanks.
 

engineer40

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And if you were up for the build, I would possibly also be interested in one of your Assassin muzzle brakes tuned for it.
 

engineer40

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Looking at my bolt action rifles I have in the safe, the 303 British looks like it would have been a good bolt face and magazine to base from... Except the chamber pressures are not even close to 460 Mag stats.

Mosin Nagant... I won't even think about this for now. But I have heard of multiple conversions of Mosin's into 45-70 and 500 Magnum. Again, chamber pressures may be an issue.

All of my newer bolt actions have recessed bolt faces.

The bolt face on my 1903A3 is mostly flat. Only a small thin rim along the top. There are plenty of these already sporterized available. Maybe this would be a good/easier platform to start from?

 

J E Custom

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Hey J E Custom; if I did the leg work to gather up all of the components, would you be interested in building a similar one for a paying customer?

It would probably take you 1/3 the time to do it the second time around. :D

I can PM you if you are interested. Thanks.

I am retired and only do a few rifles a year for friends and relatives now, but would be happy to assist you in the component selection for your build if you need it.

There is a very good Smith in Oklahoma (Teds Gun Shop) that you should talk to and see if he could help you. there are also many good Gun Smiths On this site that could help.

It is a tough project but very possible in the hands of a good smith.

J E CUSTOM
 

engineer40

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I received a PM today from 375ultramag, who appears to be from Michigan like myself. I give him credit for all of this info.

There is actually a company right here in my home state that does exactly what I'm looking for; Ultimate Firearms. They have very nice bolt action rifles based on the Remington 700 action that shoot both the 450 Bushmaster and 460 S&W Mag Improved (which I believe is a 45 Raptor). Both of those cartridges are legal in the shotgun areas of Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio.

They get their barrels from Lothar Walther and have a 1:24 twist. Can get 20, 22, or 24 inch.

450 Bushmaster - 460 Smith & Wesson Mag - Game Breaker Rifles

Interesting that the 460 Mag Improved appears to be rimless and can use the same bolt face as a standard 308 Win.

Doing a bit more reading also pointed out that the 450 Bushmaster can be made on an AR15 platform and the 45 Raptor can be made on an AR10 platform; if a semi auto is preferred.

Thanks again to 375ultramag for the information!
 

J E Custom

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I received a PM today from 375ultramag, who appears to be from Michigan like myself. I give him credit for all of this info.

There is actually a company right here in my home state that does exactly what I'm looking for; Ultimate Firearms. They have very nice bolt action rifles based on the Remington 700 action that shoot both the 450 Bushmaster and 460 S&W Mag Improved (which I believe is a 45 Raptor). Both of those cartridges are legal in the shotgun areas of Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio.

They get their barrels from Lothar Walther and have a 1:24 twist. Can get 20, 22, or 24 inch.

450 Bushmaster - 460 Smith & Wesson Mag - Game Breaker Rifles

Interesting that the 460 Mag Improved appears to be rimless and can use the same bolt face as a standard 308 Win.

Doing a bit more reading also pointed out that the 450 Bushmaster can be made on an AR15 platform and the 45 Raptor can be made on an AR10 platform; if a semi auto is preferred.

Thanks again to 375ultramag for the information!
I thought you wanted a 460 S&W because you already had a pistol, But if this is not the case there are other good cartridges that will do the job for you also.

I have a 450 Bushmaster upper on an AR 15 lower that is for hogs and it is devastating.

The 460 is a rimed case, the 450 bushmaster is a rebated case that fits a standard bolt face. cases can also be mad from 284 Winchester brass just by trimming to length.

The 450 bushmaster would be easy to build on almost any action. Also the 450 marlin is a power house that would work in a bolt action (It is a belted case).

J E CUSTOM
 

HarryN

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The op is trying to find a replacement hunting setup for his elderly father that still does the job but needs the MI 1.8 inch case length.
 

HarryN

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My wife could spin faster than a 1:24 twist barrel when she was 9 months pregnant. Similarly, it is ok for short distances.

Take a look at the GS Custom bullets web site, incidentally, also with a production site in MI.

Each bullet has a recommended twist range plot for various distances and use. For me, it was really enlightening, and much more realistic than Barnes bullet charts.
 

engineer40

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My wife could spin faster than a 1:24 twist barrel when she was 9 months pregnant. Similarly, it is ok for short distances.
Yes, I did think the same thing about the twist rate. They did have an 100 yard grouping picture on their website and all bullets went through the same hole. But that could just be marketing, not repeatable, etc...



I have a 450 Bushmaster upper on an AR 15 lower that is for hogs and it is devastating.
How do you think a 450 Bushmaster would do on whitetail at 150-250 yards? The case is barely shorter than the 460SW Improved but the chamber pressures are vastly different.



So far it actually appears the most economical way to achieve my goal is to order a new DPMS G2 AR10 and put on a 45 Raptor barrel for $235. I would probably have under $1,400 into the whole thing.

But I just don't see my dad getting excited about an AR. If I could put something into his hands with a real wood stock and a bolt handle, he would really be digging it. I think it would be like giving a Harley rider a brand new crotch rocket. :)

I've sent some emails to barrel makers and am waiting to hear back. It does seem like the chamber reamers for 45 Raptor (460 Improved) are on lock down by a patent from "Raptor Shooting Systems" though.

Thanks!
 
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engineer40

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After a little research I answered my own question. The 450 Bushmaster is more than capable for deer. In fact, it appears to have higher muzzle energy numbers and higher velocity than the 12 gauge sabots I shoot.

I even read a story of a father and his son who use AR15's with 450 Bushmaster uppers to hunt elk.

...Interesting... :rolleyes:
 

FEENIX

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Yes, I did think the same thing about the twist rate. They did have an 100 yard grouping picture on their website and all bullets went through the same hole. But that could just be marketing, not repeatable, etc...





How do you think a 450 Bushmaster would do on whitetail at 150-250 yards? The case is barely shorter than the 460SW Improved but the chamber pressures are vastly different.



So far it actually appears the most economical way to achieve my goal is to order a new DPMS G2 AR10 and put on a 45 Raptor barrel for $235. I would probably have under $1,400 into the whole thing.

But I just don't see my dad getting excited about an AR. If I could put something into his hands with a real wood stock and a bolt handle, he would really be digging it. I think it would be like giving a Harley rider a brand new crotch rocket. :)

I've sent some emails to barrel makers and am waiting to hear back. It does seem like the chamber reamers for 45 Raptor (460 Improved) are on lock down by a patent from "Raptor Shooting Systems" though.

Thanks!
Have you considered Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf® ?
 

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