45-70, 45-90, or 450 Marlin?

[Tac-O]

Hey all,

If a guy wants to get a lever gun in either a 45-70, 450 Marlin, or 45-90 then what are some of the benefits to each one?

I know of a few:

45-70 - plenty of loaded ammo available but it will be lower pressure. Can be handloaded to give more oomph

450 Marlin - loaded ammo to higher pressure, but the cases are probably more expensive since they're belted and doesn't seem to be as popular as the 45-70

45-90 - alot more oomph and range, if loaded with black powder. Smokeless powder supposedly will limit it's performance to 45-70 ballistics. Loaded ammo is lacking in availability and performance

What are the performance characteristics like for each in various length barrels? I'd be looking at a 22" or 24", but an 18" or 20" would be fine if the ballistics are similar to the former. What's the general range people can cleanly take elk/moose/bison when handloading?

I found a beautiful Win 1886 deluxe case hardened 45-90 that I'd love to have...

 

[johngibbs222]

This was a question I had to ask myself a while back, in the UK 450 marlin brass is as common as unicorn crap ditto 45/90. I'm just waiting for my miroku 1886 in 45/70 to come in the shop and the police to put a 45/70 on my ticket then I'm good to go covid willing.
Ballistically there's not much between the 45/70 and the 450 marlin, I'd say the maximum range you can cleanly take elk/moose/bison when handloading is probably the range you can cleanly hit them. Most reviewers tend to think using 150 yards as a max point blank range is about the most you can expect with the 45/70.
Don't know fa about the 45/90 so wouldn't even guess but in my lyman 49th edition there's not a lot in it, even less if you check out the vihtavuori website.
Seems to me that more development has gone into the 45/70, especially with jacketed bullets.
I have a feeling that the brass for the 45/70 and 45/90 is more fragile than the 450 marlin brass, thinner walls etc but may be wrong.
With regard to barrel length, I always shy away from short barrels and the gun I hope to get has a 24" barrel. Bear in mind the gun, although 8+ pounds in weight, has a recoil that is heavier than most, certainly more than the 30/30, 308 and 30.06 guns (nearly twice as much as the 30.06 if chuck hawk's table is to be believed) when using max loads.
Hope that helps.

 

[Bigdad]

I don't know anything about the 45/90 but sounds like it will require more powder for similar performance to the others. You can get all the performance you want with the 45/70 if you handload, accuracy is great, brass and dies are available. The only advantage I see to the 450 Marlin is that it may feed a little smoother due to the belt vs rimmed case. I love my Marlin 1895S 45/70. My most accurate load is the Hornady 300 JHP over 48.0 grains of IMR4198 but I have recently switched to Lehigh Defense 225 gr, Xtreme Defense over 57.0 gr IMR4198. Less recoil, great penetration, good accuracy and actually feeds much more smoothly, almost like an action job was done.

 

[Tac-O]

Thanks for the thoughts!

I have been looking around the internet for a Marlin 1895cb in 45-70... But they're out of stock everywhere and I don't know how much I'd trust the new manufacture models they'll have later this year right off the bat... Kind of like buying a first year car, and Ruger may not continue producing the entire Marlin line.

I'd planned on very likely using Goex OE or Swiss black powder. No risk of over pressure, usually cheaper than smokeless, and apparently this is where the 45-90 (and maybe 45-70) really shines. I'm not worried about having to clean immediately after a shooting session to prevent corrosion. Smokeless loads in the 45-90 require a filler wad in the case.

 

[motrapper]

I have several 45/70 JM Marlins in XLR and Cowboy's Also Have a JM 450MXLR. Never had a 45/90 but if you like that there is a 45/110 as well.

For Simplicity and Less expense Look for a JM 45/70 Cowboy and have fun.

 

[Tac-O]

I have several 45/70 JM Marlins in XLR and Cowboy's Also Have a JM 450MXLR. Never had a 45/90 but if you like that there is a 45/110 as well.

For Simplicity and Less expense Look for a JM 45/70 Cowboy and have fun.

The JMs are pretty pricey now, right?

 

[motrapper]

Yes they are but I don't see them going down. Just take some time and look for a good deal. Check local pawn shops and Local ads.

 

[Tac-O]

Yes they are but I don't see them going down. Just take some time and look for a good deal. Check local pawn shops and Local ads.

What do you think a 2006 mfg 1895 45-70 is worth? I found one in the local classifieds for $1000. Pristine and very low round count. Comes with 2 boxes of ammo. 21" barrel. It's not a cb though.

 

[Hespco]

I have been shooting a 45-70 since about 1982. Brass life is excellent with at least 20 shots per case. Cases usually split from crimping . But if you anneal the case mouth every 10 shots or so they will last longer. I am primarily a cast bullet shooter casting my own bullets. A RCBS mold 405 gr cast bullet at 1500 to 1600 fps is about all the recoil I care to endure. My main rifle is a Marlin JM XLR stainless with 24" bbl. It is very capable of higher velocity if you can handle the recoil which can become brutal. I would think on that before selecting a higher velocity 45 cal rifle. I also cast & shoot 300 & 350gr bullets which can be driven to higher velocity with lower recoil. Over all the 400gr class of bullet is my favorite. The 45-70 has the advantage of much easier to acquire brass. Starline usually haveing it available most of the time. All things considered the 45-70 would for sure be my first choice by a long ways.

 

[levers4life]

I have CB in 45-70 and a newer .450 Marlin with brake and recoil pad. It doesn't look the part as much but if you are going to shoot a lot or run warm loads that brake and pad make a world of difference....

 

[OldTimeHunter]

What do you think a 2006 mfg 1895 45-70 is worth? I found one in the local classifieds for $1000. Pristine and very low round count. Comes with 2 boxes of ammo. 21" barrel. It's not a cb though.

The 1895 Winchester was never made in 45-70 or with a 21" bbl.

 

[OldTimeHunter]

The best 45-70 every made was the 1886 Browning copy of the 1886 Winchester. An exact copy with better steel and springs. It will shoot any "Marlin" level load and kill anything that walks. Only handicap is no scope.

 

[Dean2]

Have owned many 45-70s. Have also owned 45-90, 50-90 and 50-110 plus some double rifles in BP in 8 and 4 gauge. If you are going to shoot smokeless powder go with the 45-70. Lots of guns, lots of brass, lots of loaded ammo. The 45-70 with 3031 and a Hornady 350 RN is my all time favourite bear control round. Loaded to 1600 FPS it will penetrate bear or moose length wise 100% of the time. You can load the 45-70 much hotter than that but trust me, all they do is kick harder, they certainly don't kill any better, and they slow recovery for second shot. I won't say how many bears I shot testing all kinds of different cartridges as well as various bullet, speed combos in the 45-70 because no one who doesn't know me would believe it but the sample is definitely statistically valid.

If you are going to shoot black powder a lever is a real pain in the butt to clean and you can't just leave them not cleaned as black powder attracts moisture and will rust you out in a hurry. If you want to shoot BP I would look at the 50-110 as you don't gain anything going 45-70 to 45-90 with BP unless you shoot cast over 500 grains.

There is a very good reason the 45-70 is still going strong after nearly 150 years and the rest are relegated to enthusiast users status.

 

[Dean2]

The 1895 Winchester was never made in 45-70 or with a 21" bbl.

He is talking about a Marlin 1895. They have shot up in vlaue since Remington's bankruptcy. Of the levers, the 1895 Marlin is my favourite because it is so easy to scope with a quick detach mount and or use peep or open sights on. They also shoot great. The guns made by Marling for at least 5 years prior to being bought out by Remington are real crap, machines were worn out and QC was poor. Not all JM Marlins are created equal. Same hold true for ones made in the first 2 or 3 years Rem had it before they moved the production and got all new machinery.

This was shot with a late Remington, 2015, made 45-70 Guide gun with an 18" barrel. The later made Remingtons are every bit as good as my JM I bought new in the mid 80s. Bottom target is the JM with a 22" barrel, firing 5 rounds pretty quickly over the hood of the truck and prior to it being Magnaported.