300 Win Mag Build and Loading Questions.
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I'm referring to the seating die's bullet chamber that aligns the bullet with the case neck as the case is held by the seater die's body. The bigger they are than bullet diameter, the more the bullet can end up crooked or off center relative to the case axis.
I've measured my 30 caliber seater die's bullet chamber diameter:
Wilson BR chamber type .308, circa 1966; .3105"
RCBS standard .308, circa 1966; . . . . . . .3100"
RCBS standard .308, circa 1979; . . . . . . .3115"
RCBS competition .308, circa 1980's; . . . .3107"
RCBS standard .300 Win Mag, circa 1999, .3104"
RCBS standard .30-.338, circa 1967, . . . .3102"
Bonanza BR .30-.338, circa 1980; . . . . . .3093"
Compare those to 30 caliber bullet diameters I've measured that go from .3070" to .3092". Sierra's bullets range from .3082" to .3084" as I've measured. Lapua's D46 match bullet had the largest ones at .3092".
It's my opinion that 98% of all loaded round bullet runout and concentricity problems are caused by the fired case resizing process and die used that ends up with bad case neck issues.
65WSM
Well-Known Member
In 300 Winchester Magnum, I would choose Nosler, Norma, RWS,Winchester, Remington, Federal in order. I have not tried Hornady in that caliber. It is an advantage to have trimmed and weight sorted cases like Nosler markets. The raw Norma brass will have to be trimmed and then sorted to match the same case as the Nosler. Nosler like Weatherby and Tubbs, use Norma cases.
I have a picture of my seating dies and it's on the Nosler site and it few years old but this what I use to seat bullet in my rifle
Nosler Reloading Forum • View topic - wilson dies'
http://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11615
As far as I know, no cartridge spinning tool holds bottleneck cases (headspacing on their shoulder) to measure bullet runout the same way they are held in the chamber when fired. Depending on which one of these different ways the round is supported, you'll get different readings.
Two point support:
* Pressure ring and right behind bullet tip.
* Pressure ring and bullet right in front of the case mouth.
* Pressure ring and case neck.
Body support:
* Pressure ring to shoulder surface with body resting in a V block.
First and last one of the above are shown in:
RunoutGaugeTypesb_zps6cd0e11c.gif gif by unclenickmod | Photobucket
Two point support:
* Pressure ring and right behind bullet tip.
* Pressure ring and bullet right in front of the case mouth.
* Pressure ring and case neck.
Body support:
* Pressure ring to shoulder surface with body resting in a V block.
First and last one of the above are shown in:
RunoutGaugeTypesb_zps6cd0e11c.gif gif by unclenickmod | Photobucket
That looks spendy!!!
I am a little confused by the term...bullet runout.
There places to send fired cases and have dies made so they fit your chamber and here is one place
Warner Tool Company, Inc.
Myself I want to spend time shooting and I don't want reloading to become another job.
That is a cool site, thanks for the link!!! At $525 they aren't giving those things away. If I had not already ordered my dies I might of gone this route. I will definitely keep it in mind.
Another question though about chronographs.....any body have any recommendations before I order one?? Any thoughts on the Magnetospeed V3 Ballistic Chronograph??
I have the Oehler 35P and one of our club member got one like the one your posting about and he shows us how to set it up. Not having to down range set up screens sure is a plus.
barefooter56
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36153 is Reddings part number for the TYPE S MATCH BUSHING FULL LENGTH DIE SET. Cosists of just the Competition seating die and bushing style full length die. If you are hunting. Dont use a neck die! Full length every time so you dont have to worry about a round not chambering. Redding part number for the correct VLD seating stem for this set is 55730. So cross reference 36153 ( die set) and 55730 ( VLD stem) with the Midway part numbers. Sinclair lists the REDDING part numbers with their part number so that may make life easier.
SMK1000plus
Well-Known Member
Anyone would be hard pressed to disagree with Boots Obermeyer. Where rifles are concerned, or for that matter, on any topic of which he and I have ever spoke, the man is pure genius! I can only tell you that I have a 1 in 12" (actually measures 1 in 12-1/8") twist, 26", stainless, fluted, 4 groove cut rifled barrel. It will shoot bugholes with 180gr Barnes, Bergers and SMKs at 200 yards and stabilizes those bullet out to a 1000, which is as far as I've shot them, but it will not stabilize ANY heavier bullets. That rifle keyholes 190, 195, 200 and 210 grain bullets at 100 yards, no matter has fast I've tried to push them. It's been a hard decision to tear apart a brand new barreled rifle that bugholes at 200 yards but, I'm going to rebarrel that rifle in the next several weeks. A 300 Win Mag really doesn't do anything special until you reach out a good way and then you need the higher BC of the 200+ grain bullets. I typically shoot the 230 and 215 gr Bergers, and the 210 and 240 grain SMKs in my other 300s but, they all have AT LEAST a 1 in 9" twist rate and all shoot typical groups of less than 3/4 MOA.
I don't know what bullet or weight you choose and changing Boot's mind probably isn't going to happen at this point but, I would at least ask him to keep the options open for shooting the 215 or 230 grain Berger Hybrids. Berger's site has an excellent twist rate/stability calculator. You should try it!
I don't think the twist rate's the problem.
My .30-.338 Keele with a 1:12 twist Kreiger shoots bullets 50 to 100 fps slower that a .300 Win Mag. The 15-shot test groups at 1000 with both 190 and 200 Sierra Match Kings were barely under 5 inches as measured in the pits. Shot a 190 then a 200 to kind of get an idea what each would do with at last 25 shots through the barrel. 190's shot with once fired full length sized cases; 200's with new cases. Did not hold off for any wind correction. Inner X ring's 10 inches diameter.
And Sierra 190's leaving my 24" Garand barrel with a 7.62 NATO chamber leaving at 2550 to 2600 fps from its 1:12 twist barrel shot almost as good. About 10 to 12 inch test groups with a 4.6 pound trigger and more parts having to go back into battery the same for each shot aiming with a post front sight.
Last edited:
Capt RB
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What happens to a bullet not quite stabilized in a close range hunting situation? The bullet will not perform as designed. Shooting paper doesn't involve ethics Hunting does.
When the M16 first came out it was extremely effective at it's task. General Curtis Lamay had one sent to his home for a party in which they shot watermelons with fantastic effect. He had the air force contract for the rifle. The Marines wanted to uphold the marksmanship criteria and decided that the original 1/14 being marginally stable needed to be 1/12 twist. They got the stability but the effectiveness as a military weapon became diminished because now the bullet did not tumble when it hit a human. This can happen in a marginally stable hunting bullet. The design is for expansion from point on contact. If it tumbles because you didn't everything you could your ethics are flawed. It's not a conversation or debate. Also the less stable your bullet is the more time it spends in a yaw position which will have less predictable effects in the wind.
Another huge advantage of a tighter twist in a hunting round is the gyroscopic effect. Your going from 160k rpm to 180k in a 10 and upwards of 250k rpm as you get closer to some of the high speed 7.5 a d 8 twist applications
When the M16 first came out it was extremely effective at it's task. General Curtis Lamay had one sent to his home for a party in which they shot watermelons with fantastic effect. He had the air force contract for the rifle. The Marines wanted to uphold the marksmanship criteria and decided that the original 1/14 being marginally stable needed to be 1/12 twist. They got the stability but the effectiveness as a military weapon became diminished because now the bullet did not tumble when it hit a human. This can happen in a marginally stable hunting bullet. The design is for expansion from point on contact. If it tumbles because you didn't everything you could your ethics are flawed. It's not a conversation or debate. Also the less stable your bullet is the more time it spends in a yaw position which will have less predictable effects in the wind.
Another huge advantage of a tighter twist in a hunting round is the gyroscopic effect. Your going from 160k rpm to 180k in a 10 and upwards of 250k rpm as you get closer to some of the high speed 7.5 a d 8 twist applications
