.300 Norma magnum for hunting??

[IdahoCTD]

Swamplord,

If you remember I'm the one that told you about that .423 Dakota brass in the 375 Norma thread.

jonthomps,

My barrel is a 30" 10 twist Bartlein HV contour. The load is really light in the Lapua brass and I could go up in velocity but it shoots so good where it is I really hate to mess with it. I just chambered a 27" 9 twist X-caliber barrel yesterday to test the accuracy and velocity difference compared to my Bartlein and I have a 26" Brux barrel in a Sendero contour to do next (I bumped it to test the X-caliber barrel). I also have a 30-338 Lapua Imp with a 33" Bartlein barrel that I get 3330fps out of 230's but it takes 21 grs more powder to get the 300fps. So far it's not as accurate either.

Had I of known that the Norma brass was as bad as it was when I first designed my reamer I probably wouldn't have built it. I actually asked several people about the toughness of the Norma brass and most said it was really good. It's pretty typical of Norma brass in all the calibers I've used it in. I consider it no better than Remington brass for handling pressure. At 2.00 each it's a rip off IMO. I paid 6.99/20 for the 423 Dakota cases when I bought mine (now it's still a deal at 8.99/20). Even though you'll spend hours forming it it's worth it in the long run. The same loads in Norma brass will show slight ejector marks and the Lapua brass falls out of the chamber like it doesn't have any pressure at all. The case necks get pretty thick going from .423 to .308 though. My reamer has a .341" neck and the 423 brass has about a .021-.022" neck thickness at .30 caliber compared to the .014-.015" neck thickness of the Norma cases. So I turn most of it off on the lathe and the rest with my neck turner. The cool thing is I just pop the primers out and reload the cases without having to size them at all. The necks spring back enough to give about .002" neck tension. I have built 15 or more .30 caliber magnum rifles on custom barrels and this is easily one of the most accurate. The only one that might be slightly more accurate is a Hart barreled 30-338wm I built about 15 years ago.

 

[jonthomps]

Idaho: Great info on the Lapua brass. I'll have to look into working it. Thanks.

 

[Swamplord]

Idaho

No sir, I have not forgotten ! The stuff is fantastic , now why can't Norma make their stuff as good ?
they sure like to charge $$$$ for it .

I'm ordering another 500 pcs for my new projects and have been recommending it too others also, pretty soon the stuff will dry up,

 

[Long Range]

Would a .200 freebore be to short for the 230 bergers. Would also like to run the 215 possibly. My understanding is around 230 is good but would .030 short make a lot of difference with a improved norma.

Thanks Doug

 

[IdahoCTD]

I will probably order another 500 rounds too before things dry up. I messed up a bunch of them playing around and trying to figure out how best to size them but that should still net me 950 rounds of good brass which would last a LONG time with the durability of it. 100 rounds should easily out last each barrel in .30 cal and 50-75 per barrel in any caliber under that.

More to the point....why can't anyone but RWS (and some Bertram) make brass as good as Lapua? I'm sure there are plenty that would pay the price for high quality brass if someone would make it in the calibers that Lapua doesn't. I know I would.

 

[IdahoCTD]

My reamer is .235" freebore. .250" is better for 230's but I left mine a bit short to shoot 215's if I wanted to. My OAL is 3.603 at about .007" off the lands if I remember right.

 

[Swamplord]

Just a heads up on the 423 Dakota Brass at Grafs....

I called Grafs a 1/2 hour ago, ordered another 1k pcs and asked what they got left, she said after my order was confirmed the have 8,520 pcs left, another 1k was ordered by a friend so that leaves 7,520 pcs .......

wonder how long it will last at 1k per order ?

 

[NormaMag]

Swamplord,

If you remember I'm the one that told you about that .423 Dakota brass in the 375 Norma thread.

jonthomps,

My barrel is a 30" 10 twist Bartlein HV contour. The load is really light in the Lapua brass and I could go up in velocity but it shoots so good where it is I really hate to mess with it. I just chambered a 27" 9 twist X-caliber barrel yesterday to test the accuracy and velocity difference compared to my Bartlein and I have a 26" Brux barrel in a Sendero contour to do next (I bumped it to test the X-caliber barrel). I also have a 30-338 Lapua Imp with a 33" Bartlein barrel that I get 3330fps out of 230's but it takes 21 grs more powder to get the 300fps. So far it's not as accurate either.

Had I of known that the Norma brass was as bad as it was when I first designed my reamer I probably wouldn't have built it. I actually asked several people about the toughness of the Norma brass and most said it was really good. It's pretty typical of Norma brass in all the calibers I've used it in. I consider it no better than Remington brass for handling pressure. At 2.00 each it's a rip off IMO. I paid 6.99/20 for the 423 Dakota cases when I bought mine (now it's still a deal at 8.99/20). Even though you'll spend hours forming it it's worth it in the long run. The same loads in Norma brass will show slight ejector marks and the Lapua brass falls out of the chamber like it doesn't have any pressure at all. The case necks get pretty thick going from .423 to .308 though. My reamer has a .341" neck and the 423 brass has about a .021-.022" neck thickness at .30 caliber compared to the .014-.015" neck thickness of the Norma cases. So I turn most of it off on the lathe and the rest with my neck turner. The cool thing is I just pop the primers out and reload the cases without having to size them at all. The necks spring back enough to give about .002" neck tension. I have built 15 or more .30 caliber magnum rifles on custom barrels and this is easily one of the most accurate. The only one that might be slightly more accurate is a Hart barreled 30-338wm I built about 15 years ago.

Is the Norma brass really that bad? How many reloads do you get out of it?

 

[sp6x6]

Im on 7 with mine. I do have some ejector marks.Loaded my 340 dozen Norma brass.Lot of that was 92 gr. 7828 compressed,i backed off later.So I dont have lapua except in my pea shooter 223

 

[Chandalar]

Last night I thought I would try and see how difficult forming 300 Norma was from 338 Lapua. I have a Redding 300 Norma body die, and tried it first, lubed a piece of brass and began slowly working it into the die with a Forster Co-axle press, took about 30 seconds, and then ran it through a Forster 300 Norma full length die. It seemed pretty straight forward, no binding, no heavy pushing or pressure. The necks are very thick and will need reaming on the inside and outside, and the shoulder could be cleaned up as well, also I'll need to trim the overall length, about .200. Question? Can fire forming with cream of wheat cause any problems in my barrel, I understand I will need to clean the bore thoroughly before firing a round, just curious about the multiple cream of wheat firings, or should I have a separate barrel to perform this step?

 

[Swamplord]

Are you just necking the 338 Lapua neck down to 30 caliber ?
or are you pushing the shoulder all the way down to 300 Norma Mag case length ?

 

[Chandalar]

Pushing all the way down to a 300 Norma Shoulder

 

[IdahoCTD]

Is the Norma brass really that bad? How many reloads do you get out of it?

It's about like Remington brass. I have some with loose pockets after 3 warm reloads and others that have been babied with 6-7 reloads. It's not like I'm pushing things super fast either. The fasted load with 230's was 3075fps with a 30" barrel. Most of the loads are down in the low 3000's with 230's and 3150fps with 208's. My 30-8mm, with about 10grs less case capacity, shoots 210's 3100fps in a 27" barrel and 5+ reloads using Remington 8mm mag brass. If you shoot the Lapua brass it will spoil you. Most of the wildcats I do because I can get good brass like Lapua or RWS. You pay more but it ends up being cheaper in the long run. In this case it's way cheaper to start with as well. It just takes a lot of elbow grease (and Imperial) to get the end product.

 

[IdahoCTD]

I've fired formed a bunch of the 423 Dakota brass through my Bartlein barrel without issues. I just rechambered a Remington 30-06 barrel today to fireform brass in so i don't have to clean my good barrel all the time. It took all of about 30 minutes from start to finish. Now I'll probably do about 100 rounds at a time because I borrow the action from the X-caliber barrel.