30-338 winchester magnum

[Kevin Thomas]

Tom,

Maybe I should have made myself a bit more clear here, my bad. I was speaking of prone shooting, a bit un-PC and a blatant prone-centric remark on my part! Yes, in Long range prone, you don't see (and haven't seen) 30 cals in quite some time. They still hold sway in some other disciplines where recoil isn't quite the factor that it is for us prone shooters. I've shot a few (very few) 600 yard BR matches (longest we've got here in MO), but have never messed with any 1000 yard BR shooting. Other than that, the vast majority of what I shoot is across the course or straight conventional prone shooting, irons or anys.

Sorry 'bout that!

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

 

[Bart B]

Won't a good 30-06 AI come pretty close to what a 30-338 Win will do? I've been of the impression for a while that if you put a 26" pipe on a 30-06 AI you'll scare hell out of 3000 fps with 180s. Most folks only have 22" or 24" pipes on their -06es so their not of the opinion that they'll perform anywhere near the magnums but I tend to believe that by putting 26" pipes on their -06s they're a lot closer than conventional wisdom would have you believe.
cross

A blown out '06 case may do that, but the ones I saw back in the 1960's and 1970's didn't. Their powder column was too small in diameter for its length, and that's one reason why the .308 Win. trumped the .30-06 for most high power rifle matches in the mid 1960's.

I've worn out three .30-.338 barrels shooting matches. That round (and the .308 Norma Mag.) may be the best compromise for long range accuracy, wind bucking and ease of shooting accurate at longer ranges in 30 caliber. But the 26 caliber ones are better these days as great match bullets are finally available for them. Sierra Bullets gave me a couple hundred of their then new 140-gr. HPMK .264 bullets to test in my .264 Win. Mag target rifle in the late 1960's. They shot 2 feet at 1000 yards. The Norma 139's I normally used would shoot just under 10 inches.

Here's an example of what my current barrel does with 190's in unprepped once fired full length sized cases and 200's in unprepped new cases shot alternately at 1000 yards. This is the plot I made of where the bullet holes were spotted at:

Black dots at the top of the 10-inch X ring are 190's, bottom red ones are 200's. I first fired a shot with each to zero. One shot fired about every 25 to 30 seconds, a 190 followed by a 200, then a 190 and so on. I shot 'em that way to see if anything changed accuracy wise with the barrel heating up and fouling. A standard chamber with SAAMI specs for the .338 Win. case body and shoulder was used.

It was interesting that the 200's centered a bit below the 190's and both 15-shot groups with each bullet weight are about the same size. That old Winchester 70 action's got some life left in it yet.

 

[CHARLIEDUECE65]

That looks like some really good shooting! My interest in this cartridge was to have a 30 caliber round that had more down range energy than my 308 winchester but not over powering like the 300 ultra or my 338 EDGE for deer hunting mainly and a little target shooting. I was never interested in this for 1,000 plus yard shooting, however I've learned that it can certainly do that. I had the .30 cal barrel, I have 7mm remington magnum brass, 30 cal bullets, and this is the one that I thought would be a practical/cost effective round to choose. I appreciate all the info given. Thanks.

 

[magnum]

Just to add a bit to this thread.

I have a custom .308 Norma Mag hunting rifle built for me in the late 70s early 80s with Douglas premium 24" barrel. I have not shot it a lot in recent years, but decided to try some loads with AR2209 ADI powder (packaged and sold in the US as H4350 I believe). Well I got average of 3,175 fps with Hornady 180 gr SPBT bullets using Norma cases and CCI LR std primers.

Groups were not great but I have not shot a rifle all year and my benchrest gear needs a bit of updating, so will try again after I have replaced that and have had a bit more practice.

I am also interested to try the 185 gr Berger VLD hunting bullets too.

 

[IdahoCTD]

I have 3 or 4 .30-.338's too. The smallest groups I've seen fired from any .30 caliber magnum have been from .30-.338's. I've been playing with the caliber for about 20 years as well and haven't noticed any slower velocity out of it then the .300 Win. My reamer is throated pretty long to seat 210's out where they should be though.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I WAS WONDERING WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT OF THIS ROUND. I RECENTLY BOUGHT A REM 700 MAGNUM ACTION AND HAVE A HEAVY 28.5" KRIEGER 30 CAL BARREL 1 IN 11 TWIST. IM THINKING OF GOING WITH THIS ROUND AND WILL SHOOT 175-190 GRAIN BULLETS. I DONT REALLY NEED ANYTHING BIGGER AS I HAVE A 338 EDGE. THANKS FOR ANY INFO OR OPINIONS.gun)

I wouldn't! I'd do it in .308 Norma mag. They are virtually the same cartridge, but dies and reamers are easier to come by. It's clearly a better round than the .300 Win. mag when you move up to the 200+ grain bullets
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

The 30-338 was a great cartridge for 1,000 yard competition in its day, and the 101st MTU had a rack full of them when I shot with the division team. Not as potent as the 300 Win Mag, but for target shooting, bigger definately isn't always better. The 30-338 had a nice balance of velocity, excellent accuracy (which generally degrades as the powder capacity increases; sorry guys, but that's the truth), and tolerable recoil that made it an outstanding choice for competition. It, along with every other 30 caliber cartridge, has pretty much vanished form the competitive scene today. They've been replaced by smaller cartridges firing smaller diameter, higher BC bullets for exactly the same reasons I already cited; less recoil, better accuracy, etc..

And for what it's worth if your going to be doing any case forming here, despite the moniker, it's easier to use 7mm Rem Mag cases and neck them up to 30 cal, than it is to neck 338 Win Mag cases down.

Good cartridge, though!

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

The .308 Norma moves past the .300 when you start using the newer VLDs. Has a better barrel life if that matters much, and is known to be more accurate. And yes there are still a few folks shooting that round in 1000 yard benchrest competetion this very day. But most folks are using .300 WBY and .300 Ackleys these days.
gary

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Gary,

Should have been more specific there; I'm a prone shooter. Don't see the big 30s in that game anymore often than you do a sasquatch shooting them on the line. Benchrest is probably another matter entirely, but not a game I'm involved with.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Gary,

Should have been more specific there; I'm a prone shooter. Don't see the big 30s in that game anymore often than you do a sasquatch shooting them on the line. Benchrest is probably another matter entirely, but not a game I'm involved with.

they used to shoot 1000 yard prone near my house every weekend that the Army wasn't on the range. So the idea kinda died out. They are shooting long range prone up north of me near the Michigan state line. I was kinda interested in building a 1000 yard rifle in 30x57AI or a 7x57AI for quite awhile. If the ranges ever open up again, I'll be doing a serious look into it. I have little interest in 1000 yard bench guns.

If I were much younger, I think I'd enjoy the F class or the across the course stuff. I don't do well in some of those positions these days! Actually what I'd really loved to try and learn was Palma!! Watching those guys shooting just smokes my mind, and trust me these guys can shoot good on any day of the week.
gary

 

[Bart B]

I was kinda interested in building a 1000 yard rifle in 30x57AI or a 7x57AI for quite awhile. If the ranges ever open up again, I'll be doing a serious look into it. I have little interest in 1000 yard bench guns.
........
Actually what I'd really loved to try and learn was Palma!! Watching those guys shooting just smokes my mind, and trust me these guys can shoot good on any day of the week.

The best cartridge to use in long range is one that's very accurate, bucks the wind well and probably more important, one that doesn't have much recoil. All of which is why the 6.5-.284 has become popular....and wins most of the matches and sets the records. The older 30 caliber rounds (both rimless and belted) have too much recoil and don't buck the wind as well as the modern 6.5's these days. Cartridges with more recoil move the bore axis further off from where it should be before the bullet exits. Such is life with shoulder-fired rifles.

The only difference between Palma and other long range prone matches (metallic and any sight divisions) is you have to learn your zeros at 800 and 900 yards as well as using only the .308 Win.. Conventional long range matches are shot at 600 and 1000 yards and one can use any safe rifle.

 

[CHARLIEDUECE65]

Old post, but I ended up going with the 308 norma magnum. I have chambered two barrels so far. Really love this round.The first one on a 24.5" #3 bartlien and the other a 26" rock creek rem varmint contour both 10 twists.

The first barrel I had chambered was/is very accurate. It's loaded with a 165 nosler bt, H4831 powder, and norma brass, for deer hunting. I just got the varmint contoured barreled action back from the gunsmith. I am planning on shooting the 190/200 smk for target and the 208 amax for hunting. Looking for load data for this. I think I have read around 65 grains of imr 4350 with the 190 smk? (With the norma brass I have had to use lower powder charges)

 

[Buttermilk]

An older thread I know, but I'm shooting a 30-338WM...




It's been an accurate round for me.



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