264WM Throat Length?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by MagnumManiac, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,
    Have a quick question for you all:

    I have just ordered a Win Midel 70 EW 264WM, have not seen it yet, but was wondering if any of you have one and can tell me what distance to the lands in OAL you are getting?

    My concerns are that I heard they are very short throated from the factory and if this is true, then I will have to get a 6.5mm throating reamer as it is one that I have used only once and I borrowed it.

    Also, do any of you know if the Portugese manufactured rifles imported by Baco differ any to the US made rifles? My 338WM EW is a Baco, it IS short throated.

    Cheers.
    :confused:
     
  2. codyadams

    codyadams Well-Known Member

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    I have a .264 wm built on a Ruger, it was reamed with a JGS .264 wm SAAMI reamer. My OAL with the 147 ELD-M to .010" off the lands is 3.340"......so VERY short. However, with HBN coated 147's, I'm getting them to 3240 fps using retumbo, and it is not max pressure, just where it shot best. So it is still performing fantastic....but that eld-m is WAY in there.
     
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  3. codyadams

    codyadams Well-Known Member

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    20180523_150513.jpg
    Here are a couple dummy rounds loaded up with the bearing surface at the neck shoulder junction. Left is 147 eld-m and right is 140 VLD
    20180629_215051.jpg
    And here is the loaded round, 147 eld-m, at .010" off lands.
     
  4. codyadams

    codyadams Well-Known Member

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    If you throated it to proper length, I would be very interested to see what performance you get. I want to throat this .264 wm eventually, I'm fairly certain there are some large gains to be had.
     
  5. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    My current F-Class rifle in 264WM is throated to .220” for the VLD’s and Hybrids, gives me an additional 100-150fps with very slow powders that fill the case entirely.
    For this hunting rifle, I’m looking for a throat length of .200” for the 142gr ABLR. I like to have some jump to reduce pressures a little for more velocity. I have tried throat lengths from .160”-.220” and the longer throats are nicer on brass and barrels.
    I have a Sendero II as well, it is throated at .200” currently, but it is no walk around mountain rifle, it weighs in over 12.5lbs.

    Cheers.
    :)
     
  6. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    My .264 is one of the South Carolina-produced Model 70's (not sure if that makes a difference). Out of the box, OAL to the lands with Berger 140 VLD's was 3.373 and with 140 AMAX's was 3.331. Definitely short throated.

    Case capacity of Nosler brass fired in my rifle averages 87.8 grains. Filled to the base of the neck, my cases hold 83.5 grains of RL-33, 81.0 grains of Retumbo, and 84.5 grains of IMR 7828 SSC. None of these powders reach max charge anywhere near 100% case capacity. Having to seat bullets deeply in the case doesn't hurt performance in a case that is this overbore. As long as the ogive of your chosen bullet can be seated above the case mouth, I don't see a reason to lengthen the throat.

    My .264 has shot well from the very beginning. If I had to criticize something, I am inclined to see the factory 9 twist barrel as more of a limitation than the short throat.
     
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  7. 257Tony

    257Tony Well-Known Member

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    I would try some loads before you have it re-throated. I was able to hit 3200 with a 140 with rl22 and rl26 with a factory chamber and 26" barrel.
     
    just country likes this.
  8. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    Thanks all,
    Looks like my fears have been confirmed.
    I will throat it as soon as I get my hands on it. A .060” throat is just too short for my liking.

    Have just been informed it may take a year for this rifle to arrive here in Australia..... once again the bottom of the world is last to be sent ANYTHING!
    Can’t even source factory loaded ammo in this carrtidge here!

    Cheers.
    :)
     
  9. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    Don't despair regarding availability of factory ammo. IMO, factory ammo in .264 Win Mag is a waste of time, money, and ballistic potential. The current production Model 70's are nice rifles. Worth the wait, IMO.

    I look forward to your feedback once you have your rifle in hand and begin burning some powder!
     
  10. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    I agree they are worth the wait. I have 2 currently, a North Caroliner built 300WM and a Portugese built 338WM, the 264WM will make up my trio of EW’s. Whether it’s a Portugese model or not is yet to be seen.

    Unfortunately, neither loaded or unprimed brass of ANY description is available here. I was just looking for a way to get new brass by buying factory loads.
    I have 80 ww-super cases that are for my comp rifle, 20 of those original 100 are being used in my Sendero and I would really like to get more ww-super brass as it lasts the longest. I used some Federal at one point, they lasted 2 firings before primers fell out!
    I bought those 100 cases in the old white cardboard 100 count Winchester boxes. I recall buying 100 counts in 25-06, 264WM, 300WM, 338WM & 375H&H. I think that era of Winchester brass (1990’s) to be the best it had ever been, nowadays I cull so many NEW Winchester cases it is depressing saying I will no longer buy it unless I inspect it thoroughly first.

    Cheers.
    ;)
     
  11. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    When you say this, are you referring to .264 brass, specifically, or cartridge brass in general?

    If getting .264 brass is the problem, I know it has been common practice among .264 shooters to neck down 7mm Rem Mag brass. Perhaps that would be easier for you to obtain?

    I am mildly surprised that Bertram, Norma, or RWS is not more easily available to you. I would take any of those over current production Winchester (you are right that older production Winchester was better quality). Norma makes both .264 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag. If you can get your hands on RWS in 7mm Rem Mag, I would expect that to be the best option for durability.

    My Nosler brass is OK, but I won't buy it again. I can do better elsewhere for the same price or lower.
     
  12. codyadams

    codyadams Well-Known Member

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    I agree, if you van get it easier, just neck down 7mm rem mag brass. Easy as that
     
  13. Danny1788

    Danny1788 Well-Known Member

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    .177” is the throat on my custom reamer and it puts a 140hybrid .020” off the lands plenty of room in the mag box.
     
  14. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    Looks like my reply vanished......oh well, let’s try again.

    Benchracer, what I meant was no 264WM brass or ammo is available here at all.
    I can order Norma brass, it may take months to get here, and recently I have had major problems with very soft Norma brass. I have had ejector marks/loose pockets from loads 5% below max, this just isn’t right with brass that is much larger in case capacity than other brands.
    Bertram has never been good either. I bought 100 cases for my 338Edge, NOT ONE would chamber, they were all out of spec to even a factory chambered 300RUM. Sent them back for a refund, even after all the prep I had done to them.

    I prefer the correct headstamp on my brass, saves any confusion. I used to form 25-06 from 30-06, a buddy was shooting MY loaded formed cases through HIS 30-06 mistakenly. He just picked one up and looked at the headstamp and didn’t notice they were much smaller in bullet diameter. He was wondering why there were funny holes in the target before I discovered the mix up.

    Anyway, I’m still on the hunt for some once fired or new brass here.

    Cheers.
    :)