223 Varmint rifle, build or buy??

[packgoatguy]

Novice alert... hope this thread is in the right spot, and I apologize as this topic has probably been addressed a million times.

My wife has finally approved my acquisition of another "toy"...

I would like to get into a rifle that will allow me to stretch my shooting capabilities beyond 600 yard, even to 1000 in range shooting, but also be practical for small game and varmints (Coyotes, rabbits, squirrels, etc).

Over the years I have taken many a critter with everything from my Ruger 10/22, AR15 223s, and up to my Tikka 270 Win. Of late, I have come to enjoy hunting opportunities with my boys where we could just as easily take a coyote as a jack rabbit. We do enjoy eating the backstraps off of the Jacks, so I don't like to destroy them with anything bigger than the 22, but then I end up hauling two rifles; one for the Yotes, and one for the Rabbits and bunnies...

So, I had the bright idea that I could get into a 223 rifle that would be capable of longer range shots, whether at the range or on the rabbits... but also that I could shoot reduced "game load" rounds out of when I encountered bunnies up close (something in the 1100-1500FPS range) and then put in a longer range capable load in the same set if I glassed a jack or a dog out at 600 yards.

So... after that lengthy explanation; I am looking for a 223 rifle capable of sub moa groups (a rifle that is only limited by my own inadequacy) I don't have experience building a rifle, so initially I thought I should either buy a used "built gun" from someone else looking to upgrade, or find a quality "out of the box" shooter.

As I have enjoyed my Tikka T3 270 Win, I have been drawn to the Tikka 223 rifles, as I have only heard good things about their accuracy out of the box. I think I would most prefer a 24 inch barrel with a 1-8 twist, that could allow me to stretch my range a bit with heavier bullets, and I would prefer a stainless barrel, but that limits me to the T3x Super Varmint Stainless 600mm barrel and I can't seem to find them in stock ANYWHERE. (The T3x Varmint in blued barrel... not the Super Varmint seems to be readily available for $750-$900 depending on the retailer) What is going to be the difference between the Varmint vs the Super Varmint with the same 600mm barrel?

So, what would be another viable option for me? What if I found a used T3 223 action and put it in an aftermarket chassis and a quality barrel? What might that run me for a finished rifle compared to what I would spend on a new T3x Varmint or Super Varmint? What advantages might I see from going that route?

Any other recommendations or ideas that I should consider?

Thanks for your time (and patience)

 

[Plinker147]

There are plenty of factory .223's that will shoot MOA or sub, but I would say you will be better off to build a semi custom. Mainly because of the twist. Most if not all factory guns do not have a fast enough twist to stabilize the longer heavier 75-90gr bullets which will be your best bullets for long distance.

If long range is really your goal and you reload, you might think about a 6BR. Just as easy, cheap, and fun to shoot with better long range ability.

 

[packgoatguy]

There are plenty of factory .223's that will shoot MOA or sub, but I would say you will be better off to build a semi custom. Mainly because of the twist. Most if not all factory guns do not have a fast enough twist to stabilize the longer heavier 75-90gr bullets which will be your best bullets for long distance.

If long range is really your goal and you reload, you might think about a 6BR. Just as easy, cheap, and fun to shoot with better long range ability.

Would a 1/8 twist in a 24 inch barrel not be enough to stabilize? And if you have a second, talk me through what it would take to build a "semi custom"? Lets use the Tikka 223 as an example. What parts would you keep and what parts would you replace, where would you find the parts you were looking for, and how much of that would be necessary to involve a gun smith to do it right?

As to the 6BR, thats not a bad idea, however I do plan on eventually having a second more long range capable hunting round; either extending the range of my 270 win with some rifle mods a bit, or going to a 7mm mag as I hunt deer and elk. So, ultimately I am hoping to end up with two rifles to do two different jobs; one for the short to long range varmint level hunting and target plinking, and then one to reach out for deer and other big game sized targets. Thoughts?

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Just buy an el cheappo deluxe 22/250 and shoot the crap out of it...don't bother with any custom .223's, not worth it...

 

[packgoatguy]

I am drawn to the 223 for my smaller game rifle, as it would be a lot easier to shoot lighter loads out of it for smaller game that i would want to eat (and not turn into a pink mist) Looking for a caliber that will be cheap to reload, fun for my kids to shoot, take up to coyote size game at 600 plus yards, but also take rabbits at 100 yards without destroying them. (I would carry two different loads)

 

[Plinker147]

If Tikka your choice of action, use the action and get gunsmith re-barrel in a barrel suited for what you want. Remington action or savage work fine as well. What I refer to as semi custom is using a factory action not a custom high end action.

If you use a savage action you can buy per-chambered barrels and do everything yourself if your inclined.

You can always buy the factory gun of your choice, try it and see if it works for you want. If it doesn't then you can always get it re-barreled.

I personally like the semi custom route on all my guns because at the end you have exactly what you want and you know its going to a great shooter. You can also buy part by part when a good deal comes around and be in a semi-custom gun for under $1500 if your patient and watch for good deals. When you spread out $1500 over a year its harder for the wife to track it!!

 

[HARPERC]

The Tikka T3's in the CTR style make a good entry level rifle. Generally provide good to excellent accuracy.

The .223 as a 600-1000 yard coyote set up leaves a bit to be desired in my mind.

McMillan makes a good stock for them, but adds about $900. I haven't had good luck with Tikka magazine, replacements are expensive. Changing the bottom metal to accept other magazines, runs about $200 if I remember correctly.

There have been a couple of used customs pass through the classifieds lately so that's always an option as well.

Good Luck!

 

[benchracer]

I agree with your choice of .223 for a training rifle and small game rifle. I don't have direct experience with the Tikka rifles, but have heard a lot of good things about them over a period of several years. A factory .223 with an 8 twist is a very versatile rifle, within its limits. Out to 600 yards, even a factory .223 is an excellent paper puncher. It is not, however, a realistic 600 yard coyote rifle. Neither is it a 1000 yard target rifle, which is a much more specialized (read custom) rig.

The factory Tikka will serve you well for small game, using Calhoon loads. It will do well as a target/training rifle and as a varmint/predator rifle out to moderate distances. The second rifle you mention should be chosen with predators and larger game at long range in mind.

Given that you are a self-described novice, I believe the factory .223 is a good place to start. It offers a combination of virtues that will be helpful as you develop and hone your marksmanship and handloading skills.

 

[ATH]

I'm a bit perplexed at your desire to shoot the .223 at 1100-1500fps. I won't say it's impossible, but I can't say I've seen it done. If it is possible, your POI would likely be radically different and require a re-zero or scope compensation whenever switching between rounds. I would think you would be better off choosing a harder bullet which would kill, but not grenade like a Vmax and utterly destroy small game.

If you want to shoot paper at 600-1000 yards, you can make a fast twist 223 do this. However, you will be profoundly disappointed on its ability to reliably put down game. And the bullets you can accurately shoot that far and buck the wind are for shooting paper much more than for shooting game.

It sounds like what you really want is a 243. This would retain the performance you want on both targets and small game to a much longer distance.

If you are set on a 223, IMHO, you are asking too many different things from it, and have unrealistic expectations of what it can accomplish at long range.

As for "semi custom", you can get a Savage and rebarrel at home quite easily to whatever you want. Or buy a Remington and do a "Rem/age" with a McGowan barrel or similar, which is the same method as the Savage barrel nut installation but with some added complexity indexing the recoil lug.

I can't say there is any factory rifle I would trust to shoot accurately at 600-1000 yards that would cost less than buying a donor Savage and re-barreling with a quality rifle capable of what I wanted, and bedding it in a Boyds stock or similar.

I'm a huge fan of the little rifles, this winter I built a precision AR in 223 and a Savage in 20 Practical. But I don't plan to shoot the 223 over 500 yards or the 20 over 400.

 

[Catahoula]

My advice is to buy a 25-06. Load it with 100 Sierra MK's & go hunting. Excellent combination & mild recoil.
Thanks, Kirk

 

[milkie62]

My Mossberg MVP varmint .223/5.56 with 24" barrel is a .5 moa or slightly better right out of the box.

 

[packgoatguy]

So, I am getting resistance about the 223 being a viable 600+ yard cartridge. How about the 308 instead?? With would have quite a bit more energy at the longer ranges than the 223 I guess. I am getting into reloading, and have a lot of empty 308 brass from my son's savage 308...

Does anyone have experience with light loads in a 308 that would let it shoot under 400lbs of energy at 50-100 yards? Again, my interest would be in a rifle that would let me shoot coyotes and rabbits out to long range distances as well as rabbits and bunnies at shorter ranges, without destroying the meat. With a 223, a subsonic load will still let me accurately take a rabbit at 100 yards, but will only have a bit more oomph than a 22lr, so it won't destroy the meat with a well placed shot. Could I make a 308 do the same thing? If I loaded a 110 gr 308 to 1100-1300 fps loads, or even subsonic, then I guess it would be possible to do the same thing with a 308. (So I would carry heavy hot loaded rounds for my longer range shots, and then light loaded rounds for the shorter range shots.)

If I did go with 308 vs 223, what can I do about recoil? My 13 year old isn't thrilled about the recoil of his 308. Would a muzzle break be worth the extra noise when hunting for small game?

 

[benchracer]

It doesn't matter what chambering you select. You are trying to do too much with one rifle. You are not going to get effective reduced loads for close in stuff and 600-1000 yard performance from the same rifle.

If you go with the .223, you will need something else to cover the 600-1000 yard portion of what you are after.

The reverse is also true.

 

[packgoatguy]

I'm a bit perplexed at your desire to shoot the .223 at 1100-1500fps. I won't say it's impossible, but I can't say I've seen it done. If it is possible, your POI would likely be radically different and require a re-zero or scope compensation whenever switching between rounds. I would think you would be better off choosing a harder bullet which would kill, but not grenade like a Vmax and utterly destroy small game.

For comparison sake, factory subsonic 223 ammo would still be very effective for rabbit sized game out to about 100 yards or so. I figure that going slightly above that 1050 fps range, will still allow accurate shooting (and light enough energy to not destroy meat) out to 150 yards.
So, my plan would be to either use the mil hashes on my Vortex PST to aim the lighter loads, and with practice I figure I should be able to switch between the two different loads. My other thought would be to have a side mounted red dot style scope that was sighted specifically to the lighter rounds for the closer (25-150 yard) shots.