223 Rem. neck expansion?

jcpython357

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Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
323
Location
Schofield, WI.
Well, I took my 700VS 223 out yesterday on a very nice day almost no wind and no mirage to speak of, shooting at 100 yds first trying some Rem. 50gr.power-lokts,(unfired brass BTW) had the bullets seated .010" off the lands with Benchmark powder and one load of H4895, best 5 shot group was .830" with the latter, worst 1.132" so I said **** on it, I'll shoot at 50yds to take (any) wind that was there out of the equation, didn't notice anything over 5mph while shooting, then I tried 53gr. Hornadys with H335, ranging from 24.5-26.5grs. of powder, about .008" off the lands, the best I could get was .279", at 50yds, my Cooper 22LR. shot almost that good with Wolf Match Target ammo, my question is, my neck expansion was measured at .244" loaded and .253-.254" fired. How much does .010" neck expansion affect accuracy on a rifle like this? Jay
 

barry206

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
24
Location
Trinidad CO
Since your not seating the bullets into the lands the neck of the round is laying on the bottom or the chamber.If that makes sense.The diffrence in the fired and unfired neck dimensions are normal for a noncustom chamber.You may try the Redding S-type die where you can only size half the neck length and that will let the bottom half of the [not-sized neck]center the round in the chamber.Maybe its just me but this has helped my preformance in stock rifles alot of times.When you seat the bullet into the lands it centers the round in the chamber.No neck brass touching the chamber wall.Thats why I thing so many rifles shoot better this way.Just my 2-cents.
 

BountyHunter

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Jun 13, 2007
Messages
5,343
Location
Wilmington NC
Jim Carstenson from JLC precision (advertises in Precision Shooting) will convert your present die to bushings for $35 shipped to him. Turn around is about 2-3 wks. Or buy the Redding bushing die.

BH
 

jcpython357

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Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
323
Location
Schofield, WI.
Barry, BH, Can't I just take my regular Redding die and partial neck size(1/3 the way down the neck) and load like that? And you think I should take the rest of the 400pc. of new brass and seat the bullets against the lands. Will that almost guarantee tighter groups? Thanks for the info. Jay
 

nbnico

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2003
Messages
8
Location
eastern Pa
Jay, just something to think about. The first time I fire new brass I seat the bullets hard into the lands and use a starting load of a medium burning rate powder for that cartridge. I feel this gives me very straight cases and helps form them to my particular chamber. After words I neck size them until they fit the chamber too tight and then use the full lenght die to just bump the shoulder. Using this method I have been able to keep the runout on my resized cases at .001" or less. Of course if your chamber isn't straight to begin with, not much will help. That's why I love my Sinclair concentricity guage. If there is a problem it helps me find where it's coming from. I have a 700VS in 223 also and love it!
Brian
 

jcpython357

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Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
323
Location
Schofield, WI.
Thanks to all, I loaded some today with the above methods, I think there maybe some hope for my rifle after all, I know my 6mm came around last year once I had some fired brass to work with. All else fails.....first 600 gets er'
Jay.
 

nbnico

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2003
Messages
8
Location
eastern Pa
Jay, one other thing you need to be sure of. Is the scope proven? When I started shooting my 700VS I couldn't get it to group under an inch at 100yds. I tried several different poweders, bullets, primers, cases, you name it. Groups were always 1". I fire lapped the barrel, lapped the lugs, still no good. I talked to Wally Hart and he said I should try a differant scope. I said but it's brand new. He said two things, 1- those rifles normally shoot good enough to scare you, right out of the box, and 2- there are many more bad scopes than rifles! I put on another scope and WOW what a differance. Food for thought! Brian
 

jcpython357

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
323
Location
Schofield, WI.
nbnico, Well, it's a Burris 6-24x Sig., I'd say it is, I had it on my 6mm last year, getting groups under 3/8ths with no problem, one group @.217" and some 4 shots out of a 5 shot group went under 1/4".
Jay.
 

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