I bet the 7mm PRO blows the .28 Nosler away...
The body size of the 7mm PRO is 3.5% smaller than the 28 Nosler.
195 grain 7mm Berger - How Much Cartridge Will it Need?
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The body size of the 7mm PRO is 3.5% smaller than the 28 Nosler.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
It is in this instance, unless your definition of "blows away" is different from mine.
The 7mm PRO cartridge is a necked up 6.5 PRO which is shorter than the 26 Nosler .. yes .. BUT my 6.5 is off the 300 Norma Mag, (necked down, shoulder pushed up to 35 degree ) which is fatter and has a capacity advantage of 9 grains h20 over the 26 Nosler, also with a much longer neck with bullet not impacting powder space,
in the 26 Nosler - to maintain the 3.340" coal, the bullet is seated deep down into the case reducing powder capacity considerably , in the 6.5 PRO my COAL max is 3.400" with only the boattail sitting past the neck with zero impact on case capacity.....you will have the same situation with the 7mm Pro vs 28 Nosler !
I easily reached 3500 fps with the 160 gr Matrix in the 6.5 PRO, the 26 Nosler will be hard pressed to do that with 140 gr bullets .
I have proven that I can beat 375 Rum velocities with my 375 PRO (375-338 Norma 35 degree neck )
and even match 378 WBY velocities with excellent accuracy with a lot less powder ..
The efficiency of my long necked PRO series of wildcats based on the Norma Mag case cannot be discounted and I fully believe a 7mm version will be the ultimate 7mm that will provide better ballistics than the 7mm Rum with far less throat erosion,
the accuracy of the 300 and 338 Norma Mag & every single wildcat based on the Norma Mag case has been very well documented on this site and just about every other gun site on the web,
D
Deleted member 46119
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Even though I'm firmly committed to all calibers of the 26 Nosler I am with Swamplord on his PRO Norma wildcats over 26 Nosler wildcats. Faster and flatter with the same bullet.
But I have no intention of running them at 3.4" they will be seated just to neck length. I'll be running them in full length Mark V long actions or full length R700 actions. Because if the availability of bullets the 8mm/323 that will go on the Mauser can be held to 3.4" if needed.
But I have no intention of running them at 3.4" they will be seated just to neck length. I'll be running them in full length Mark V long actions or full length R700 actions. Because if the availability of bullets the 8mm/323 that will go on the Mauser can be held to 3.4" if needed.
When I first heard about 195 gr 7mm bullets, I decided to build something to shoot them. I bought 300 Norma cases and RUM cases to examine. I even drew up reamer prints for them. My statement about the body of the 28 Nosler having a larger capacity than the body of your cartridge is correct. You have to fill the neck and shoulder to get more volume from your case. You can also seat the bullets like you picture and give the advantage to your cartridge. If you seat the base of the bearing surface of a bullet at the neck shoulder junction, your cartridge won't hold more water. The 28 Nosler will be longer but it will still work in a standard magazine. A 7mm bullet consumes about 1 grain of water per 1/16".
I have since given up on the 195 gr bullets. I sold my 7mm barrel and ordered a 30 cal to replace it. I've modified my 7mm reamer print to a 30 cal and am going to build one of those. My cartridge isn't exactly like the 26 Nosler but it is close.
If the 7mm PRO has an advantage it will be because the fat case has an efficiency advantage. I've heard, many times, that they do but have never seen any data to support the claim and I've looked for some.
I agree with you to a point
if you run the new Nosler case with a bullet seated to the base of the neck then case capacities are pretty close to equal, on the same token I can seat bullets to same neck depth and case cap gain remains at 9 grains and that is substantial
the pic I posted shows both cartridges with bullets seated to the same length at 3.340", a Nosler cartridge oal for the 26 Nosler.. with the 160 gr Matrix more than half of the bullet hangs below the case neck/shoulder junction , same thing will occur with the 7mm 195 gr or 308 230 gr bullets, the best solution would be to forgo the 3.340" max length and run the 26 Nosler based wildcats in a 300 RUM action, THEN you have something ! I have owned several 300 RUMs since the first year they came out and same with the 300 WSM's , excellent cartridges in their own right and I also think that the 26 Nosler case is an excellent base for necking up to 7mm, 308 and up ( when you bypass the standard length superiority nonsense )
I guess I can cut the necks off the 26 Nosler and 6.5 PRO for a water weight test to confirm actual case h20 capacity differences
if you run the new Nosler case with a bullet seated to the base of the neck then case capacities are pretty close to equal, on the same token I can seat bullets to same neck depth and case cap gain remains at 9 grains and that is substantial
the pic I posted shows both cartridges with bullets seated to the same length at 3.340", a Nosler cartridge oal for the 26 Nosler.. with the 160 gr Matrix more than half of the bullet hangs below the case neck/shoulder junction , same thing will occur with the 7mm 195 gr or 308 230 gr bullets, the best solution would be to forgo the 3.340" max length and run the 26 Nosler based wildcats in a 300 RUM action, THEN you have something ! I have owned several 300 RUMs since the first year they came out and same with the 300 WSM's , excellent cartridges in their own right and I also think that the 26 Nosler case is an excellent base for necking up to 7mm, 308 and up ( when you bypass the standard length superiority nonsense )
I guess I can cut the necks off the 26 Nosler and 6.5 PRO for a water weight test to confirm actual case h20 capacity differences
You don't have to ruin your cases to make the comparison. You can put a bullet in each case with the rear of the bearing surface at the neck shoulder junction and fill them through the flash hole.
cohunter14
Well-Known Member
Powder capacity isn't always everything.... I.E. - 7STW compared to a 7RUM.
Same velocities and capabilities, but the RUM needs 10-15 grains more powder to do it.
If those are the parameters for 'same velocities and capabilities' than a 7mag compared to the 7STW is almost the same thing...except it's more like 15-20 grains in that case...
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
If those are the parameters for 'same velocities and capabilities' than a 7mag compared to the 7STW is almost the same thing...except it's more like 15-20 grains in that case...
You 7RUM shooters sure get awefully defensive when someone starts pointing out facts. My buddy has had 2 7RUM's...Neither one were any faster than my STW with the same bullets, powder, and primers...With equal charges compared to case volume.
Please show me where a 7RUM does any better of a job at anything (other than burning more powder, money, and barrels), compared to an STW?
They're so close in ballistics it's a pointless arguement.
7RM is very close in performance to the STW with the right reloading components.
cohunter14
Well-Known Member
I am not a 7RUM shooter, or any 7mm for that matter. Just stating the facts. If 100fps is not significant, than it isn't significant. But don't spout off something like that when it is the exact same argument with the 7mag versus the 7STW is all I am saying. Your friend's 7RUM may not have done better, but the majority of published loads show 100fps difference in the RUM vs the STW. Same thing with the 7mag vs STW.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Look at the 7828....... 11 fps difference at max recommended load. Within 1% of an equal fill ratio.
9 grains more powder for 11 more fps...
The numbers in black & white don't lie.
Here it is straight out of my Berger manual comparing 180gr bullets.
7mm STW
7mm RUM
cohunter14
Well-Known Member
Guys, not trying to get into an argument here, just saying that wasn't a very good statement. If we are comparing similar powders though, here is a copy from Hodgdon online...7mag up top and 7STW below. Check out H1000...69.5 vs 74.5 and 8fps difference. You can spin the numbers however you want to, but we all know the truth about loading manuals...
Sorry that this threw the thread off track...I just don't want someone to read that and believe it.
Sorry that this threw the thread off track...I just don't want someone to read that and believe it.
