7mm 195 berger

Bigd7378

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Oct 8, 2011
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Gods country north idaho
Any updates???? Wanting to build a fast twist 7 SAUM or 7 WSM. Leaning more towards the 7 SAUM, have a borden alpine wsm action. Thinking about a 28" lilja barrel. Hope berger does come out with these, can't wait to send these torpedos down range!!!! Should be a smoker.
 

sendero72

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Feb 9, 2010
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I wonder what kind of twist rate it will take to stabilize these bad boys?
 

.284

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Aug 14, 2009
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In another thread one of the members from Berger bullets estimated it to be a 8.5 twist. I guess we'll have to wait and see for sure.
 

SPR123

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Oct 1, 2012
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I'm going with an 8 twist for my 7mm LRM build. I can't wait to try the 195's out, all my parts are in with the exception of the 7mmLRM reamer and "GO" gauge.
 

deadlift

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Don't overlook the matrix 190's, their available now and are one hell of a bullet!
Ive stabilized them down to 2500fps with a 9 twist. My dakota runs them at 3077.
Chris
Benchmark Barrels
 

TH

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Jan 22, 2003
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The 190 Matrix bullets shoot the best in my 7-300 norma improved. They are definately worth a try
 

Bigd7378

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Oct 8, 2011
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Gods country north idaho
Was looking at the matrix site. There B.C. Seem awful high, has anyone tested them? Is it legit. There 168 vld has a b.c of .713. Berger 168 vld is only .617. The Berger 180 hybrid is only .674. What is the length of the 190 matrix?
 

JeffVN

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The box of Matrix that I tested were nearly identical in length to 180 Berger VLDs. Litz's book (2d edition) says they are nearly identical in G1 BC to the Berger 180 Hybrid.

JeffVN
 

AZShooter

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Dec 12, 2005
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Bigd7378,

Regarding your getting a Lilja. I see Dan only carries a 3 groove 1 in 7 and 1 in 8. Nothing in 1 in 8.5.

I built a 7 Rem Mag a few years ago at the same time my friend built a 7 STW to be used for LR hunting not competition. Both of us intended to shoot the 180 VLD. We talked to Dan Lilja and he said the 1 in 7 3 groove was THE barrel to use for our purposes. We both ordered 30" barrels.

My friend's barrel begain to unraveled the 180 VLD hunting bullets around round count 175. My barrel did the same with a slightly higher round of 225 count during a coues deer hunt! I didn't hit the deer as intended and had to use another rifle to finish it off.

I was advised here NOT to get a 3 groove because once the throat wears some they will chew up bullets. Asked Dan Lilja about it and he said they have not seen a problem. Later when both of our barrels destroyed the occasional bullet I again talked to Dan and he danced around the issue.

I talked to Bryan Litz regarding this problem and he suggested I try the 180 target VLDs as they are thicker in the bearing surface. They shot for a while then they began to unravel too. It wouldn't be every shot but maybe 1 in 8 which is plenty to ruin any confidence. Bryan also suggested moly. Tried that with the 180 target VLDs which helped for a while then they also came apart. Finally went to a 140 accubond as they shot better than the 160s but talk about a drop in BC.

I was very disgusted with the 1 in 7 3 groove and should have listened to others here. Lesson learned.

I just wanted to share this information with you before you buy a 3 groove with such a fast twist. I figure the 1 in 8 3 groove will also cause issues but perhaps at a higher round count.
 

Bigd7378

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Oct 8, 2011
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Gods country north idaho
AZShooter,
Thanks for that bit of advise. What would you recommend for my barrel? I know this bullet is not even out yet, and might not even be a reality. Just been thinking out load for a long range rifle in 7mm for target and hunting that won't be to bad of a barrel burner. I really like the 7 short mags and want to stay with them. Have three 7wsm and one 7 saum.
 

AZShooter

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Dec 12, 2005
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Tucson Az
I am no expert but I'd go with a Bartlein 5R or perhaps a Kreiger. My most recent barrel is a Bartlein 5R that shoots the 6mm-284. It is still shooting tiny little clusters with 900 plus rounds through it. Still cleans up pretty good too. Personally I would get a 1 in 8.5 5R made by Barlein.
 

Buffalobob

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Jun 12, 2001
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Potomac River
With thin skinned, high SD bullets, you have to watch the compression and velocity and twist. All three can destroy a bullet or mutilate it enough to destroy accuracy. Hopefully Berger will have a thicker jacket or a harder alloy core for the bullet to ensure structural stability. The 3 groove barrel irregardless of maker have a high compression. They destroy bullets in many different calibers if high velocity is involved.

I shoot a 7 AM in a 1-9 twist four groove Lilja and the old Richard Graves thin jacketed Wildcat 200s at a velocity of about 3350 fps and have about 300+ rounds down the barrel. I have to clean the barrel every 15 - 20 rounds or accuracy goes a way and it begins to eat bullets. Getting the carbon ring in the throat cleaned up is the most important thing.

This year I believe I shot a total of six round through the rifle and one of those was at an animal. If I wish to have a high round count down a barrel I use a 308.
 

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