6.5 PRC compared to .308 effeciency?

Hydra6 said:

1000+ yards is a long way for 308 unless you have a long barrel (26 inches+) and a special projectile with high BC.

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I love 308 win and own 7 of them but in no configuration with any magic bullet does it remotely compete with 6.5CM or PRC 1000 yds and beyond. The PRC cartridge just thrives out there with high B.C bullets and better more efficient design. I said it.

CMP70306 said:

I shot my 6.5 PRC next to a guy shooting a .308 at a long range shooting class years back. Through the spotting scope it was like watching a fastball vs slow pitch softball. I was shooting the 153.3gr Berger at 2900 fps and he was shooting the 175gr Sierra Matchking at 2600 fps. My 1000 yard drop was around 24 MOA, his was 38 MOA if I remember correctly.

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175 TMK at 2730 closes the gap a bit. But yes not completely.

For many, many, many years there have been ballistically superior cartridges.

OK.

So why has the 308 been so popular?

Put 47 grains of powder and a 153 grain bullet in the PRC, and that will answer the question.

Anymore with rangefinders the trajectory isn't as big of a problem as the wind drift, last month here at our 60 shot 600 yd Highpower match the wind was fairly well at our backs but always you get the fish tailing effect from4 oclock to 10 oclock and the wind was about 20 mph so to keep them in the 10 ring every time was tough and sooner or later you would get caught in a switch. With my 260 I made out fairly well and looked at my buddies score shooting next to me with his 308 and some of the switches that took me over to the edge of the 10 ring or maybe into the 9 ring would take him into the 9 ring or perhaps the 8 ring. His wife was shooting a service rifle AR15 and those switches cost her perhaps another ring on the target. the 6.5x284 or 6.5 PRC would be better but tough on barrels

R. Cram said:

Anymore with rangefinders the trajectory isn't as big of a problem as the wind drift, last month here at our 60 shot 600 yd Highpower match the wind was fairly well at our backs but always you get the fish tailing effect from4 oclock to 10 oclock and the wind was about 20 mph so to keep them in the 10 ring every time was tough and sooner or later you would get caught in a switch. With my 260 I made out fairly well and looked at my buddies score shooting next to me with his 308 and some of the switches that took me over to the edge of the 10 ring or maybe into the 9 ring would take him into the 9 ring or perhaps the 8 ring. His wife was shooting a service rifle AR15 and those switches cost her perhaps another ring on the target. the 6.5x284 or 6.5 PRC would be better but tough on barrels

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True. For budget high volume shooting and learning wind calls 308 is the game. Ive learned alot shooting them the 45+ yrs i e been shooting them.

Hydra6 said:

1000+ yards is a long way for 308 unless you have a long barrel (26 inches+) and a special projectile with high BC.

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1000y for .308 is doable, albeit stretched, with bullets with low drag and high accuracy. It can also be done with a slightly shorter barrel (I did it with 24"), but at around 900y it goes transonic -> subsonic.
6.5 PRC is from a different category altogether, as FEENIX said.

CouchPotatoGun said:

Well I thought it was apples to oranges TOO untill my buddy that shoots F class was telling me how little powder he used per load and the high BC bullets he used. Then I was thinking that maybe it wasn't as far fetched as I had originally thought

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actually, I think it is...

I'm not sure how we hit anything with our old non inherently accurate, inefficient cartridges years ago. No podcasts, ballistic calculators,, angle compensating rangefinders etc. Somehow folks did. The new might be better but the old ain't broke. There are advantages to both.

FireFlyFishing said:

What is your definition of extreme range?

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CouchPotatoGun said:

The 6.5 ballistics seem far superior to the .308 but the .308 still "pulls the wagon" just fine with much less powder and highly efficient projectiles.
Anyone shoot one beside the other at extreme range?

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Whats your definition of "Efficient Projectiles" ?? It's one of the LEAST efficient available.
They literally aren't even close. Like, not even a little bit.

FireFlyFishing said:

What is your definition of extreme range?

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And what's your definition of FAR SUPERIOR O.P.? And what is it you plan to shoot...steel or flesh and blood ? .308 is FAR SUPERIOR IN COST TO SHOOT and enjoy....

The wind drift, which is the biggest problem at long range, is certainly way less with th 6.5 prc however if a person truly wants to hit what he is aiming at he needs experience. so in a very real way a person is much better off to go and get a bolt gun in 308 and go shoot it a lot. the barrel life for long range is probably 4000 rnds in a 308 vs 1000 rnds in a 6.5prc. !000 rnds which is probably 10 matches when you figure in some load development, and sighters and practice and nobody is a excellent wind reader in 10 matches, they are probably 25 times better wind readers in 10 matches than no matches. Most of us that compete long range don't bring out the fast cartridges, 6.5x284 or prc's or belted magnums unless it's a fancy match that we deem important. people are very hesitant to shoot in matches but need to swallow their pride and learn if they really want to shoot long range. At a match every shot is identified at the moment and at ranges past 500 yds a shooter needs to make a wind guess for each shot because it is very rair that the wind is identical for each shot so the shooter can make his wind guess then shoot the shot and see the results and learn from that. For this reason if a person is serious about shooting long range a 308 is more efficient when learning than a 6.5 due to the fact it won't cost you an arm and leg in barrels to learn and you will be more inclined to go shoot it without worrying about your barrel. most of us dinosaurs cringe when inexperienced shooters go out and buy the coolest, most expensive junk and then assume they are marksmen and qualified to start shooting animals long range. you can't buy marksmanship skills

skipglo said:

And what's your definition of FAR SUPERIOR O.P.? And what is it you plan to shoot...steel or flesh and blood ? .308 is FAR SUPERIOR IN COST TO SHOOT and enjoy....

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By what metric?
Just because its cheap doesnt mean its "cost to shoot and enjoy" is superior.
Burning powders isnt more fun than hitting what youre shooting at.

blksno said:

By what metric?
Just because its cheap doesnt mean its "cost to shoot and enjoy" is superior.
Burning powders isnt more fun than hitting what youre shooting at.

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Both will hit what they are pointed at...and by simple MATH METRICS...a person doesn't have to be a genius to figure out the cost savings of one over the other...just pointing out the EXTREME difference to consider because the difference in performance..... isn't extreme in my books.....just me!

jseandsje said:

175 TMK at 2730 closes the gap a bit. But yes not completely.

For many, many, many years there have been ballistically superior cartridges.

OK.

So why has the 308 been so popular?

Put 47 grains of powder and a 153 grain bullet in the PRC, and that will answer the question.

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The .308 has been so popular due to 70 years of military and law enforcement usage making it the default short action rifle cartridge leading to widespread adoption and development of accurate ammo and rifles. Similar to the 30-06 in a long action It's a good jack of all trades cartridge that does a lot of things well but nothing spectacularly good.

As for a lower powder 6.5 PRC, that's called the 6.5 Creedmoor which uses even less powder and still wins in trajectory, recoil, long range velocity on target and only loses in barrel life. The 6.5 Creedmoor is rapidly taking the place the .308 used to occupy in the target world which is also bleeding into the hunting world as well.

The sole benefit the .308 has over the 6.5 Creedmoor is better barrel life but at the same time settling for 5,000 rounds of worse performance to save a $600 barrel change while shooting $10,000 worth of ammo seems to not make much sense.

CouchPotatoGun said:

The 6.5 ballistics seem far superior to the .308 but the .308 still "pulls the wagon" just fine with much less powder and highly efficient projectiles.
Anyone shoot one beside the other at extreme range?

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With their similar powder capacities, a more apples to apples comparison would be the .308 to 6.5 Creedmoor. I love the .308 and shoot it almost exclusively nowadays, but there is no question, at past 600 yards, I get more first round hits with my 6.5 Creedmoors than I do with my .308s.

John