Why Hammer Bullets Are Always Faster

[Lou270]

SMH, It's a metaphor To each their own but I disagree, why do you think that they put a gas escape port in the action ? Once again I want everyone to be safe so load at to your own experience level and stick to the book if that's what works for you. New technology = New practices, it's a brave new world

Brass case is nothing like fuse. The gas ports and other safety features are put into the action in case the brass fails, but the firearm will fire either way. There is no differences in the stesses applied to the firearm if you run 70k with a thick case vs 70k with a thinner case. Either would blow up if not contained by the steel of the chamber but one way give you a few more loadings

Lou

 

[Lou270]

Even my feeble underdeveloped backwoods brain can think of a way.
And Lou will promptly discount it, but here goes.

Lou, you and I can both do this.

Let's drill a 1/8" hole through the hollow point and out the base of a 30 cal 124HH and a 125 accubond (plastic tip removed). Run a piece of 1/8 wire through, crimp the end. Leave the long end out the HP. With some scales and winch, we can easily see how much force it takes to pull each through the bbl. Sure. Not scientific, but I was taught to connect the dots in kindergarten.

You can easily get an idea of engraving pressure by loading each bullet with same powder charge and shooting over chronograph. The one with the lower engraving pressure will give you a lower velocity/pressure

Lou

 

[K.E.C.]

OMG WE ALL GOT YOUR ADVICE.
THANK YOU

Brass case is nothing like fuse. The gas ports and other safety features are put into the action in case the brass fails, but the firearm will fire either way. There is no differences in the stesses applied to the firearm if you run 70k with a thick case vs 70k with a thinner case. Either would blow up if not contained by the steel of the chamber but one way give you a few more loadings

Lou

 

[ButterBean]

Brass case is nothing like fuse. The gas ports and other safety features are put into the action in case the brass fails, but the firearm will fire either way. There is no differences in the stesses applied to the firearm if you run 70k with a thick case vs 70k with a thinner case. Either would blow up if not contained by the steel of the chamber but one way give you a few more loadings

Lou

 

[1mechanic]

Brass case is nothing like fuse. The gas ports and other safety features are put into the action in case the brass fails, but the firearm will fire either way. There is no differences in the stesses applied to the firearm if you run 70k with a thick case vs 70k with a thinner case. Either would blow up if not contained by the steel of the chamber but one way give you a few more loadings

Lou

Ah but it is, the fuse is the weak link in an electrical circuit and the brass is the weak link in a firearm.

They will both give way before anything else does hence the metaphor.

 

[jessej]

View attachment 546424

 

[HARPERC]

Sometimes you need to replace a 5 amp (hornady) with a 30 amp (lapua). Especially if the system will stand 200 amps.

Not trolling you, it just brought to mind, the times, I've seen builds fail secondary to building on an action not suitable for a 200 amp cartridge.

 

[fordy]

Gday
I really like this

Sometimes you need to replace a 5 amp (hornady) with a 30 amp (lapua). Especially if the system will stand 200 amps.

I have had some very interesting discussions with brass manufacturers over the years

One in particular recently said a very interesting comment that I delved deeper & understood a bit more while leaving more unknowns

His comment was brass is like a shear pin ( I think you guys call them shear bolts ) &
It is to protect the action & will give out before the firearm ( old trapdoor or like excluded & we should take note of those pressure limits & not use today's high quality brass & goes with carls

Not trolling you, it just brought to mind, the times, I've seen builds fail secondary to building on an action not suitable for a 200 amp cartridge.

)

Now once you stress that brass to a level it's toast & that maybe one & done ( after fireforming to one's specific chamber ) or 20 reloads

Yet both are safe it's when we take those stressed pieces & try to use again things get iffy

we can go from large rifle brass to small & increase pressures that blow primers in the large yet the small primer brass is fine so how does that go with sammi rated pressures

Just a few of the points above that werepointed out to me

So to me after I thought about all that for a while ( hope I've got that correct off him as I hate Chinese whispers but I've quizzed him a few times now )
I call them today high preformance loads not dangerous & brass is the shear pin that I'm happy to use the better stuff that does increase the preformance & even 100 fps can actually mean a lot
Best example I was given of someone pushing the envelope ( & pretty fitting here imo is the guys that are shooting longrange & have found that their hit ratio is greater if they stay out of the transonic zone
Now I hear get a bigger caliber ok I guess but these guys are already shooting a 375 cheytec & that's what their employer provided them so I can't comment on that only I do see the reference of getting the most out of ones combo

It's knowing the brass is toast not some sammi number that we read out of a manual

Jm2cw
Cheers

 

[Lou270]

Brass is not like a shear pin either. Shear pins and fuses are designed to let go at specific limits to protect equipment, rifle brass is not. You don't buy a higher amp fuse so you can run more current through a circuit as that defeats the purpose of a fuse. What is getting proposed (at least sounds to me) is that running stronger brass lets you run higher pressures at lower risk. But there is no reduction in risk. The accumulated stress of higher pressure is what causes increased fatigue and risk of failure, not necessarily a single overload. Maybe you have confidence your action/barrel can handle it or never shoot enough to see a problem. Again, it is just a poor analogy or metaphor for folks who may be new to this. If you are pushing the edge you should understand what is going on

Lou

 

[Hand Skills]

As a licensed Power Engineer I can confirm the electrical metaphor is logically sound.

 

[Lou270]

As a licensed Power Engineer I can confirm the electrical metaphor is logically sound.

As an Electrical Engineer I say it is not. In any case when you spec your fuses or breakers or whatever you use do you spec it to protect your equipment and the people using it or some arbitrarily higher limit because you don't believe the specifications of the equipment you are trying to protect?

Lou

 

[1mechanic]

Not going to debate loading practices as people can do what they want. However, the brass is in no way a fuse or indication of safety. A fuse disconnects the circuit and stops anything bad from happening to the system. Brass can fail and the system fires fine. A cartridge case is merely a container. You don't need it at all technically - think muzzleloader or some cannons.

Lou

You just don't get it. You said it yourself the cartridge is just the container and technically you don't need it.

In a firearm the circuit is way overbuilt so if you want to use a soft brass case ( a low amp fuse ) you can but it doesn't mean a stronger case ( a high amp fuse ) is to much for the circuit.

 

[ButterBean]

As an Electrical Engineer I say it is not. In any case when you spec your fuses or breakers or whatever you use do you spec it to protect your equipment and the people using it or some arbitrarily higher limit because you don't believe the specifications of the equipment you are trying to protect?

Lou

Bruh, we know your an engineer so that explains it all to us common folk but the metaphor is sound and are load development is as well, I'm not try to be abrasive but you'll find no quarter here .
Hammers are unique and allow us to do things never possible before and while I appreciate your opinion it won't get any fanfare here, stick to the board as it appears to be working for you and I'll stay on the Borderline

 

[Shane Lindsey]

I'm walking on the wild side...

Do, da do, da do, do da do, do,,,