5,000 fps coyote rifle?

[scope-eye]

From my experience for every 1000 fps that you add is like going from a minivan to a topfuel dragster, in every aspect from time of flight,vapor trail, to hydro static shock "Red mist" among other things.

Dean

 

[Eagle eyes 17]

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

I have also been looking into a high velocity varmint load for a .223 Remington ,
it looks like I can do a 30gr at around
4,100+ fps @ muzzle.
I will probably only be shooting @ 100 - 200yds. to maintain similar supersonic results at impact.
Any concerns about bullet flight distortion at these speeds?

 

[nicholasjohn]

I have also been looking into a high velocity varminter load for a
.223 Remington , it looks like I can do a 40gr @ around 4,100+ fps muzzle.
I will probably only be shooting @ 100 - 200yds. for supersonic results at impact.
Any concerns about flight distortion at these speeds?

4100 fps might be a little optimistic in the 223 with a 40-grain bullet. They do make some lighter bullets with cores made out of powdered metals that would go that fast, and ought to vaporized small pests. I'll bet that somebody on this forum has worked with those, and can comment further on the matter.

 

[Calvin45]

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

love and agree with the "just because" justification for stupid speed. No further reason required.

.22-284 gets my vote, no improved. There's an article out there about a guy named Bruce Potts I believe who exceeded 5100 with 30 grain Berger's in this rig, and it was with a 1:7 twist to boot. Amazed they didn't just blow up. I bet with a 14 twist you could go harder with 40-55 grain bullets. The .22-284 would clean up a .220 swift chamber nicely. That makes me smile in a deranged way: the thought of a .22" project that starts with cleaning up a .220 swift chamber.

 

[Calvin45]

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

I'd also mention the .20-250 wildcat (or better, a .204" creedmoor). Don't rule out the 6mms either. The 55 btip doesn't actually lose much of any bc to the .22 bullets of same weight and can be pushed faster in any given case capacity.

Perhaps go real old school here: there was once a .244 H&h magnum, with factory ammo by kynoch even. It's exactly what it sounds like, a full length 300 hh case necked down to 6mm, no further mods.

in any big 22 my vote for bullet would be the 53 vmax or 53 varmageddon.

 

[Ndfarmer]

Scope-eye I have read about some of your rifles and loads on a different form. I Was wondering what your favorite 22 cal hot rod was and what bullets you used?

 

[Eagle eyes 17]

Just found some Sierra load data for my 6mm Creed. w/ 1:7.5 twist 26" + muzzle brake Rifle using a 55gr BlitzKing going 4,100fps and better B.C.

 

[scope-eye]

Scope-eye I have read about some of your rifles and loads on a different form. I Was wondering what your favorite 22 cal hot rod was and what bullets you used?

I can't say I have any favorite rigs or bullets, My first serious setup which I still have is a 220swift AI with a 16 twist. I load that thing like I am mad at it 40gr Vmax with 48gr of Varget which is way over max but it always took it like a trooper. My 22X55 Swede is up there up until recently you could buy 100 pcs of Lapua brass for $69.00, and the case holds almost 55gr of powder that and you can really beat the snot out of them and they don't say boo. 53gr Vmaxs with there half decent BC are a good choice for that one and still be well above 4500 fps. And not to be ignored 22-243, 22-243AI and the Middlestead version are a force to be reckoned with. I use all variations of blitz kings with them and load them with no mercy. and last but not least my 22-06s I load them with Sierra's 69gr and 77gr I like there short bearing surface. I have loaded 35gr and 40gr for poops and giggles but in this case have opted for the heavier bullets to take advantage of the 60gr plus case capacity.

Dean

 

[scope-eye]

As far as that 22-284 that shoots 5100 fps out of a 7 twist barrel.
lets see MV 5100fps X 720 divided by 7 twist = 525000 rpm
I would have to actually witness that to believe it, copper jackets start coming apart at just over 300000 rpm let alone over half a million rpm.

Dean

 

[TAZMAN]

Looks like the 22 284 is the cartridge? Now you just have to find the bullet that will hold up and pick a twist rate to work with that bullet. That has to be like a laser to 600 yards?

 

[scope-eye]

On a lighter note and while we are on the subject of Varmint guns, the pic in my avatar is a canon that Gerald Bull built the barrel is three feet in diameter and over 300 feet long. I use to go see it all the time and sit back and just and just admire it it was on the Vermont Canadian border. It had been abandoned for a long time I had this pipe dream of buying it but was not meant to be. the day that they chopped it up and buried it was one of the saddest days of my life I am not embarrassed to say I actually had tears running down my face.

Dean
PS: I have some pics of me standing on it and beside it for a good prospective of just how larger than life that thing was. it was a marvel of engineering as far as I am concerned. The man was a ballistic genius.

 

[codyadams]

30 grain Berger, 7.7 twist, 22-284, 5143 fps, just over half MOA accuracy. That bullet must have been made with a tough jacket.....

https://www.gunmart.net/ammunition/reloading/bullets/wildcatting-22-284

 

[scope-eye]

Depleted Uranium jackets
I can't even begin to imagine they amount of YAW or imbalance, of something rotating that fast. at least you won't have to worry about the bullet tumbling.

Dean

 

[doubledoc]

22 wsm. 34 inch barrel, 44 gr hammer hunter. quickload 4750-4800 with a couple powders h-1000 being best. powder bridging might be a problem though. don't have the newest update but maybe ramshot lrt might be a better choice

But for a coy-dog rifle, 34" is a lot of barrel to carry around! Thought the idea was to maximize MPBR in a 'carry rifle', and if so, that alters the equation....