Dead soft brass!

[cohunt]

I've used tempilac paint from day one no matter what way I have annealed -- I saw too many horror stories on youtube/net to even start without a consistant way to judge temp.-- i also test on scrap brass for my setup before I start on good brass--- the internet has lots of good info, but lots of mis-informed people also-- always need to sort through it all to see if you can figure out the bs.

I have a buddy that says "youtube is the devil"--- I say "the devil is in the details", and I always try to find a reputable source of information, I like to jump in feet first, not head first. Always need to remember, there are people on youtube eating laundry detergent.

We all learn lessons in the reloading process and hopefully we can share our "oops" like the op did, I find that often times books are a lot better source of info than the net is.

 

[Dirtrax]

So the way I see it you can buy an annealing machine and ruin all your brass in record time if you don't know how to determine the proper process. There are no shortcuts to understanding what is being accomplished. The method is secondary to the science.

 

[Barrelnut]

BoatTail, I looked over the brass in the pic in detail and it looks like over half of the brass is actually ok and usable. A lot of it is actually annealed well. So the sky is not falling!
Seems you primed almost all of it before deciding that it was unusable. I would just sort thru it and cull the ones that are over annealed.
Others above are right, you can ruin brass just a easily and FASTER with an automated annealer.
If you cannot grasp the concepts. get the AMP machine.
If you decide to try one more time, I suggest watching the tutorials by AmmoSmith on Youtube. This is how I learned. He does a good job.

Will add that I only anneal about 50 cases at a time, two or three times a month. It is faster for me to just use the torch and drill. I can have them done before I could even get an auto annealer set up and calibrated for the cartridge I happen to be annealing at the time. If I was doing 500 pieces at a time, I would use another method.

 

[jasonco]

Annealing practice's IS like having an anus, we all got one. Using the propane-socket-drill method, works, has worked and will continue to work, but you have to very careful with it!
I built my machine and prototyping another for high capacity use, I'm handy like that.

OP, did you not do some trash brass testing in a a light area first, to get your technique, before you went for the real thing?!

 

[SidecarFlip]

n AMP machine or a Giraud induyctio annealer is a good down payment on an outfitted hunt... Not for me.

 

[jjmp]

Bought a Bench-Source by Vertex , it's a Great machine have annealed thousands of pieces of brass , proper set up backed by Instructions is vital . Now there's even cheaper ways to anneal !, Read and Follow instructions for best results . Take the time it takes to get it right ,if you get stuck , call the company for help , thks !

 

[LongBomber]

Unless you got the case head annealed the brass isn't toast. The cases that have the neck/shoulder too soft run through regular a FL die 4-5 times. Reducing the neck and pulling back over the expander ball will work harden them again. It will take a bit to get them all back consistent again.

 

[birdiemc]

Unless you got the case head annealed the brass isn't toast. The cases that have the neck/shoulder too soft run through regular a FL die 4-5 times. Reducing the neck and pulling back over the expander ball will work harden them again. It will take a bit to get them all back consistent again.

I was wondering if that would work, but then boattail piped up and said something about burning out the metals that make up the brass. I dont know anything about the metallurgy of brass so I have no idea one way or the other.

 

[Dean2]

I was wondering if that would work, but then boattail piped up and said something about burning out the metals that make up the brass. I dont know anything about the metallurgy of brass so I have no idea one way or the other.

Brass is made of Copper and Zinc. Less Zinc, more reddish brass, more Zinc, yellower to gold colour. Melting point of Zinc is 787 degrees and Copper is 1981, melting point of Brass is 1700. Zinc is the softer of the two metals. You would have to take the brass to molten and then above that point before you are going to burn off any of the component metals. Working the brass will harden it and is the only way to harden brass.

 

[ophious]

This is what I use.

 

[Dirtrax]

I just can't see how "color" testing has any application in annealing. It is a function of heat over time. Both can be adjusted to achieve the desired result. The constant is temperature. And in our case location.

 

[yorke-1]

Unless you got the case head annealed the brass isn't toast. The cases that have the neck/shoulder too soft run through regular a FL die 4-5 times. Reducing the neck and pulling back over the expander ball will work harden them again. It will take a bit to get them all back consistent again.

If the cases were over heated for too long you'll end up with the heat moving too far down the case and possibly softening the body or case head. If the case head has been softened it's best to scrap the brass.

Brass is made of Copper and Zinc. Less Zinc, more reddish brass, more Zinc, yellower to gold colour. Melting point of Zinc is 787 degrees and Copper is 1981, melting point of Brass is 1700. Zinc is the softer of the two metals. You would have to take the brass to molten and then above that point before you are going to burn off any of the component metals. Working the brass will harden it and is the only way to harden brass.

What are you basing this information on?

 

[birdiemc]

What are you basing this information on?

Didnt look up the melting point of the component metals but looks like Dean got it right, below is a link to a manufacturer of brass stock, where they say 70% cu, 30%zn is the formula for cartridge brass. Have a look.
So the video out there that says something like "the orange flame coming off is the impurities burning out of the brass and a good indication of the exact point when you have overheated it so back it off a second and you're good"
Kinda sounds wrong in light of this. Instead maybe that is the sizing wax burning off or something...interesting to hear from an engineer who really knows what they're talking about, not somebody like me just guessing at what might be going on

http://www.farmerscopper.com/cartridge-brass-260-c260-c26000.html?_vsrefdom=www.google.com

 

[yorke-1]

Didnt look up the melting point of the component metals but looks like Dean got it right, below is a link to a manufacturer of brass stock, where they say 70% cu, 30%zn is the formula for cartridge brass. Have a look.
So the video out there that says something like "the orange flame coming off is the impurities burning out of the brass and a good indication of the exact point when you have overheated it so back it off a second and you're good"
Kinda sounds wrong in light of this. Instead maybe that is the sizing wax burning off or something...interesting to hear from an engineer who really knows what they're talking about, not somebody like me just guessing at what might be going on

http://www.farmerscopper.com/cartridge-brass-260-c260-c26000.html?_vsrefdom=www.google.com

I agree that the information on the composition of the brass is accurate. My concern is the assumption that the brass would need to be molten before any of the zinc were burning off. I don't have a degree in metallurgy so I'm not qualified to give a solid answer. I will say that based on conversations I've had with metallurgists, I won't hold my brass in a flame longer than the time it takes for the flame to change color.

Just remember that this topic was started after the OP had a bad experience using information that he got from the internet. I question anything I'm told unless I can confirm the qualifications of the individual providing the information.

This is an excellent article written using quality sources:
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html