Caliber choice, chasing the fad.

Its easy to forget to put the plugs in when the excitement sets in...i have pulled the trigger too many times with the plugs still hanging around my neck. Thats why I don't use brakes - the tinitus I already have is plenty fun to deal with.

Agreed. The only brakes I have anymore are taper mounts for a suppressor.

I think a large issue with the smaller caliber stuff is that long range shooting in general has gotten cool. As more people take up the sport they look for a lesser recoiling round that can reach out on targets. And 260s and creeds do a fabulous job at that. As far as factory match style loadings like precision hunter CM does a decent job of keeping up with the 300 and the prc loads outrun it.

The issue comes when they don't take energy on target into account. As long as that is understood and you stay within limits there's no issues.

Although magic energy lines are a whole other bag of laughs in themselves.
 
I think energy has become over emphasized. My favorite example is the 140 gr 6.5 vs the 180-200 gr .300 win mag. When you reach the range where energies equalize the 30 is still heavier and carries greater momentum. On another note, the sound gear hearing protection is by far the most impressive I have ever used. In the wind, under my hat, it works.
 
I understand and appreciate how the industry has continued to develop and make better bullets, powders, products in general. I have noticed the new Frind is to try and use the smallest caliber to kill the biggest game. Example the 6.5 prc shooting elk or moose. Does it work, sure it works and in the hands of a professional it works well. But I wonder if we forget the hunters of old. Basically it's a 270 that you try and stretch out a little more. It for many years bigger magnums were the standard, and they took a lot of game. I wonder if we should still consider this in caliber choice. The reason I have in mind is, we may not always have made the perfect heart and lung shot, maybe there was an unexpected gust of wind, and you hit it too far forward or too far back. The magnum would shoot through both shoulders or hind quarters, or really spill in a gut shot. This breaks them down and allows a much better chance of retrieving the animal. Face it we don't all always make perfect shots and harvest the perfect way, but losing some meat versus losing all the meat is a concern. So while I love the 6.5 creedmoor, lapua, prc, saum I have also seen them not preform as well with a bad shot as a 7 mag, 300 win, any of the bigger bullets. I am sure there will be some disagreement but then I am probably not talking to the creedmoor shooter that can constantly hit 5 inch groups at 1 k I am talking to the guy who wants to hunt long range and doesn't have practice time and spends thousands of hard earned money to come west and hunt.

I learned a long time ago that unless you have a pretty well unlimited budget hold back at least a decade rather than chasing the latest fad.

For shooting from point blank to a thousand yards none of the newer cartridges are adding any real new capability.

Some run a little faster, some put magnum performance into a short action etc but none of them performance wise are really doing anything that cartridges we've had around for most of the last hundred years.

In the firearms game, "Keeping up with the Jones') can get very expensive.
 
If you are an elk hunter and you think you are going to put it in the boiler room every single time, then you haven't been an elk hunter for very long. Anything can happen out there. I've killed my share of elk and deer with a 30.06 or a 30/30 but I have moved on. I now hunt all of my big game with a 300 wsm and I'll leave it at that.
 
I understand and appreciate how the industry has continued to develop and make better bullets, powders, products in general. I have noticed the new Frind is to try and use the smallest caliber to kill the biggest game. Example the 6.5 prc shooting elk or moose. Does it work, sure it works and in the hands of a professional it works well. But I wonder if we forget the hunters of old. Basically it's a 270 that you try and stretch out a little more. It for many years bigger magnums were the standard, and they took a lot of game. I wonder if we should still consider this in caliber choice. The reason I have in mind is, we may not always have made the perfect heart and lung shot, maybe there was an unexpected gust of wind, and you hit it too far forward or too far back. The magnum would shoot through both shoulders or hind quarters, or really spill in a gut shot. This breaks them down and allows a much better chance of retrieving the animal. Face it we don't all always make perfect shots and harvest the perfect way, but losing some meat versus losing all the meat is a concern. So while I love the 6.5 creedmoor, lapua, prc, saum I have also seen them not preform as well with a bad shot as a 7 mag, 300 win, any of the bigger bullets. I am sure there will be some disagreement but then I am probably not talking to the creedmoor shooter that can constantly hit 5 inch groups at 1 k I am talking to the guy who wants to hunt long range and doesn't have practice time and spends thousands of hard earned money to come west and hunt.

Why worry about what others think? I certainly don't, I have enough to worry on myself. :D
 
If you are an elk hunter and you think you are going to put it in the boiler room every single time, then you haven't been an elk hunter for very long. Anything can happen out there. I've killed my share of elk and deer with a 30.06 or a 30/30 but I have moved on. I now hunt all of my big game with a 300 wsm and I'll leave it at that.

If you think shooting a 308 over a 284 or a 264 really compensates for a bad shot, you are kidding yourself. The advantage is all psychological. A 300 wsm doesn't allow for larger margin of error than a 7mm wsm or a 6.5 wsm - at least that is material. You'll argue the weight and diameter of the bullet and I will argue velocity bullet construction and sectional density - this is how this dance looks. The elk I have seen run the furthest were gut shot with a 338 wm, A bad shot is a bad shot. Unless you are shooting 212s or 215s in that 300 wsm, it is a possibility that those 7mm and 6.5s will catch up to you out past 500 yards with regards to energy.
 
If you think shooting a 308 over a 284 or a 264 really compensates for a bad shot, you are kidding yourself. The advantage is all psychological. A 300 wsm doesn't allow for larger margin of error than a 7mm wsm or a 6.5 wsm - at least that is material. You'll argue the weight and diameter of the bullet and I will argue velocity bullet construction and sectional density - this is how this dance looks. The elk I have seen run the furthest were gut shot with a 338 wm, A bad shot is a bad shot. Unless you are shooting 212s or 215s in that 300 wsm, it is a possibility that those 7mm and 6.5s will catch up to you out past 500 yards with regards to energy.
A bad shot is a bad shot. Happens to everyone sooner or later. You recovered the gutshot elk. He went a long ways. You also were able to track him that far. What if he had been shot with a 6.5 that didn't exit? Good chance you might have not even known he had been hit, or hit very well. When this happens no one can say with a straight face they have an equal chance of retrieving the animal with ANY 6.5 and a big .338 if you are using bullets properly matched to the game you are hunting in both.
 
A bad shot is a bad shot. Happens to everyone sooner or later. You recovered the gutshot elk. He went a long ways. You also were able to track him that far. What if he had been shot with a 6.5 that didn't exit? Good chance you might have not even known he had been hit, or hit very well. When this happens no one can say with a straight face they have an equal chance of retrieving the animal with ANY 6.5 and a big .338 if you are using bullets properly matched to the game you are hunting in both.

Let me add that i have also chased down gutshot elk from 264s and 7mms and 300's (I have horses and go on a lot of elk hunts with various people). The two elk that we chased the furthest were shot with a 338 wm. Why? Who knows...that is just my experience. But to assume a 338 wm will pentrate and blow through better than a 264 wm or 7mm RM is just silly bs. Passthroughs have nothing to do with large bullet diameter.
 
Let me add that i have also chased down gutshot elk from 264s and 7mms and 300's (I have horses and go on a lot of elk hunts with various people). The two elk that we chased the furthest were shot with a 338 wm. Why? Who knows...that is just my experience. But to assume a 338 wm will pentrate and blow through better than a 264 wm or 7mm RM is just silly bs. Passthroughs have nothing to do with large bullet diameter.
No, they just make bigger holes and better blood trails, all else being equal. Penetration is from retained sectional density and energy. What you are saying is a 6.5 Creedmore or a .264 for that matter with 140's are equal in killing power to my 300RUM with 215's. Sorry, but in my experience that is absurd.
 
No, they just make bigger holes and better blood trails, all else being equal. Penetration is from retained sectional density and energy. What you are saying is a 6.5 Creedmore or a .264 for that matter with 140's are equal in killing power to my 300RUM with 215's. Sorry, but in my experience that is absurd.

Why the hell does everybody use the 6.5 creedmoor when we are talking about 264s? And you are going to compare it to a 300 rum? Yeah, great comparison dude. I am saying a 26 Nosler with 147s or a 7mm RUM with 180s will kill them just as dead as your 300 rum. Quit using the weakass creedmoor to skew the results in your favor...i own a 300 rum and also shoot the 215s btw...
 
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