Caliber choice, chasing the fad.

[FIGJAM]

You are right. Shoot them in the correct spot they die. Even with a 223 they will die. But what I am talking about is if you don't shoot them in the right spot. Example 2 years ago we are on a bull hunt, great guy from pa shoots an elk just over 400 and as he shoots the elk steps and he hits it in the hind quarters, we never found the elk. Same hunt his friend is shooting a 300wby improved and again shoots him in the hind quarters but closer to 500. Well that shot went through both hind quarters and broke him down. He went home with the elk.
Another my daughter 12 years old shot a deer this year with a 243 at 120 in the sand hills. Bullet selection was a poor choice I chose a 90 grn ballistic tip. Well it blew up on his front shoulder and we never found him. Last example that made my mind up. This year I watched a guy use a 6.5 creed and shoot an elk that was quartering away just a bit and he hit him perfect. It didn't have the juice to make it through. So that elk is dead now but we couldn't find the blood to track him. I took the same shot with a 300 wby imp and that elk spit that bullet out his mouth and we ate good that year. So yes bullet weight, speed, and energy at the target make up a lot. And while I realize smaller calibers will work I still say bigger is better. And for the last few years I would have agreed with you but I changed my mind. And I am not saying for YOU you should change anything as a matter of fact I will still hunt with my saum. But I shoot 4500 rounds a year and hit where I want to hit. And I k ow the limitations of my gun.

Hard to believe that guy hit that elk perfect with the creed and you lost it - it obviously wasn't a perfect shot. I rarely have passthroughs on elk and havent needed a blood trail to find them - could just be where I hunt

 

[gator378]

I understand and appreciate how the industry has continued to develop and make better bullets, powders, products in general. I have noticed the new Frind is to try and use the smallest caliber to kill the biggest game. Example the 6.5 prc shooting elk or moose. Does it work, sure it works and in the hands of a professional it works well. But I wonder if we forget the hunters of old. Basically it's a 270 that you try and stretch out a little more. It for many years bigger magnums were the standard, and they took a lot of game. I wonder if we should still consider this in caliber choice. The reason I have in mind is, we may not always have made the perfect heart and lung shot, maybe there was an unexpected gust of wind, and you hit it too far forward or too far back. The magnum would shoot through both shoulders or hind quarters, or really spill in a gut shot. This breaks them down and allows a much better chance of retrieving the animal. Face it we don't all always make perfect shots and harvest the perfect way, but losing some meat versus losing all the meat is a concern. So while I love the 6.5 creedmoor, lapua, prc, saum I have also seen them not preform as well with a bad shot as a 7 mag, 300 win, any of the bigger bullets. I am sure there will be some disagreement but then I am probably not talking to the creedmoor shooter that can constantly hit 5 inch groups at 1 k I am talking to the guy who wants to hunt long range and doesn't have practice time and spends thousands of hard earned money to come west and hunt.

I am in the bigger is better. Always seems to work out better than too small.

 

[gator378]

So I have a very different opinion of ethical hunting and cartridge choice than some of you on this forum, that is very apparent to me.

A doe in a field at 100 yards, a giant buck on a $7000 hunt in Alberta, a cow elk on a burn, or a 380" bull across a canyon....none of these situations dictate what cartridge I will choose or the shoots I will take or attempt!! Period!!

My range isn't dictated by the amount of powder I can shove in a brass casing or the BC of a dang bullet, it is dictated by my ability.

I say all that to say, I shoot cartridges that are more than adequate for the game, the distance and my ability. I am a hunter! I don't need to see how far I can kill one, I don't need to take risks because an animal is big or I may not fill my tag. I hunt hard to get as close as possible to the biggest animal I can. If I KNOW without doubt I can take that animal I will, if there is a chance that something may happen then I pass and wait for a new opportunity or I eat tag soup.

I can shoot a 4" group at 100 yards with my bow, and I have taken probably 20 or more Pope and Young whitetails with my bow and only 1 was taken over 25 yards. Because I can, doesn't mean I do.

Just my opinion.
Steve

Wait till you see the whites of their eyes. then do not miss.

 

[HobieH3]

I once waved a picture of a 6.5 CM at a moose from 1200 yds. DRT.

True story. ;p

 

[CCAguns]

Haven't really found anything that beats the old 30-06. With today's ammo, especially Hornady Superperformance, I get velocities and accuracy unobtainable when I reload. Haven't seen much that wouldn't fall to a 180r premium bullet at close to 2800 fps chronied.

 

[skipglo]

Every cartridge has It's practical limit. And if we stretch the limits, we are gambling at the expense of the game. today there is no reason to do this. Big bores come with more energy and also more recoil. If a person cant handle the recoil then a muzzle brake is a much better solution than using a light weight bullet/cartridge combination.

Yes the small bores will kill large game but the success rate will be lower. also the risk of losing the game is greater in some environments.

There will always be different opinions on this but there is no such thing as OVER KILL. Dead is Dead But often a small cartridge will require more than one shot and the second shot is never as good as the first.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

For years I used a .460 weatherby hunting and guiding in Northern Alberta. I often got asked....isnt that overkill! And always responded the same way you do......dead is dead....a .460 doesn't wound.... the farthest I ever had to look for an animal....was 17 ft.... straight backwards! I also quoted: " Life ends for all .....at .460!
..

 

[dougduey]

Most of you on this site know who Jeff Brozovitch is, and will respect his opinion. I subscribe to his belief that elk should be hunted with a .30 cal or bigger. Shot placement is always king, but sometimes the elk just don't want to go along with the game plan. You owe it to the animal to shoot it with the biggest caliber that YOU can shoot effectively. Nobody wants to lose an animal, and it's a sick feeling when it happens. You hunt long enough, it will happen to you......unfortunately.