Caliber choice, chasing the fad.
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Orange Dust
Well-Known Member
Mistyped. Meant to say 6.5 Creedmore or ANY .264 for that matter. And stick by it. I had a .264WM for awhile, and know it is more like a .270 magnum than a big 300. I never said it won't kill well, they do. But to give them equal killing power to a 300RUM, 338 RUM, Edge, or Lapua is absurd and I will stand by that.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I make my own brakes and can put them on any rifle that I want to, but many rifles I have do not sport one because of the need and/or use.
I have no problem using ear protection so that is not an issue. all rifles of any high pressure round can damage your hearing and ear protection SHOULD be worn.
If a person is dead set against hearing protection while hunting and don't like brakes, the simple solution is to place a brake on the rifle when shooting lots of rounds at the range to prevent flinching from recoil and replace it with a barrel nut/thread protector for hunting. Be sure and check the zero with both systems and you can have it both ways. you can even shoot with the thread protector in place and still use hearing protection at the range and even in the field.
The point is, don't under gun yourself because of recoil or sound. use the appropriate cartridge for the game hunted.
J E CUSTOM
I have no problem using ear protection so that is not an issue. all rifles of any high pressure round can damage your hearing and ear protection SHOULD be worn.
If a person is dead set against hearing protection while hunting and don't like brakes, the simple solution is to place a brake on the rifle when shooting lots of rounds at the range to prevent flinching from recoil and replace it with a barrel nut/thread protector for hunting. Be sure and check the zero with both systems and you can have it both ways. you can even shoot with the thread protector in place and still use hearing protection at the range and even in the field.
The point is, don't under gun yourself because of recoil or sound. use the appropriate cartridge for the game hunted.
J E CUSTOM
FIGJAM
Well-Known Member
Dead is dead - killing power is a myth and any advantage you think you have is psychological. Especially when we are talking calibers from .308-.264. Its not a hard formula, put the right bullet in the right place with the right energy and velocity and you have a dead animal. Don't do that, and no dead animal.
hunter67wa
Well-Known Member
I agree they are tough animals as well as whitetails seem to be dam tough at times. I shot a bull Roosevelt at 90 yards with a 30-06 with 180 Hornady 5 times behind the shoulder and he stood there never took a step. 5th shot he went down. I was dumbfounded. When we gutted him I had five hits in a volleyball size group as I was getting a little flustered thinking something was wrong. Nope he didn't get the memo that he was dead. Shot another rosy at 310y 300 win 180 Partition first shot he turned his head looked my direction and I thought what the hell that shot was perfect. So I started to take aim and noticed a dark spit behind his shoulder thought I would aim for that. Aim small miss small. As the trigger broke his back legs started to wobble. Both shots were withing 2 inches the dark spot was blood. Another time and here is the point I was hunting cows with a 375 H&H with 270 grain corelokt RN the herd came trotting by at 60y and I picked a cow out and let drive perfect midships gut shot. I might as well walked up and kicked her in the *** as she runoft like nothing happened. I ran over the hill as they were going to come through a clear-cut and they did stopped at the bottom I figured out which one she was and placed one through the shoulders and down she went. Had I not had that opportunity it would have been a long day. I had a friend that all he used was a 243 with whatever ammo was on sale and he killed bucks,bulls and bears with regular monotony, but he never pulled the trigger unless he had a perfect shot. We could learn from that. He let a lot go as he didn't have a shot but knew he would get another chance. To say Im going on a hunt of a lifetime and am gonna shoot a big caliber cause I wont be back with the possibility of losing an animal is silly. Its hunting not killing enjoy the experience. And to the OP if you dont have time to practice then by a 30-06 shoot 200's sighted 3" high at 100 and be done out to 275 yards mpbr.
Orange Dust
Well-Known Member
Here is an extreme example of where I am coming from. I hunt whitetails a lot, mainly because its what we have at home. I've killed a bunch of them with a .224TTH and 80gr Amax. Get them out in an open field, Wait until they are exactly broadside, pop them in the lungs. Dead deer. All the time in the world. If no shot today, you will kill one tomorrow. Now, I get a chance to go to Canada and shoot a Trophy Whitetail. The weather can change in a heartbeat, I may only get one chance at a trophy animal that I've spent $7k on, its getting dark on the last day, and he's walking toward heavy cover sharply quartering away from me. Do I use a little gun and let him walk, or do I shoot him with a heavy bonded bullet with my RUM. I drive the big bullet through him and take him home. Unethical? Not to me. Unethical would be using a smaller gun in this situation. These are two different worlds, and the source for much of the controversy over the proper cartridge for the job.
FIGJAM
Well-Known Member
Once again you are using extreme examples and skewing the results in your favor - a 223 vs a 300 rum. You gotta stop doing that man...Are you any better taking a 300 RUM over a 26 or 28 Nosler? No. Once again any advantage you think you have is in your head.
Canhunter35
Well-Known Member
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What r we arguing about? Take what you have and can shoot well and use it within ethical limits guys.
It's a natural progression through experiences that lead to caliber selection.
Ex: start small, faced with a situation that you don't have enough gun and let a trophy walk away, buy a bigger gun, shoot a dozen deer where you only needed the little gun then you debate which one you should take. Lol
It's a natural progression through experiences that lead to caliber selection.
Ex: start small, faced with a situation that you don't have enough gun and let a trophy walk away, buy a bigger gun, shoot a dozen deer where you only needed the little gun then you debate which one you should take. Lol
Aeolus
Well-Known Member
You are right. Shoot them in the correct spot they die. Even with a 223 they will die. But what I am talking about is if you don't shoot them in the right spot. Example 2 years ago we are on a bull hunt, great guy from pa shoots an elk just over 400 and as he shoots the elk steps and he hits it in the hind quarters, we never found the elk. Same hunt his friend is shooting a 300wby improved and again shoots him in the hind quarters but closer to 500. Well that shot went through both hind quarters and broke him down. He went home with the elk.
Another my daughter 12 years old shot a deer this year with a 243 at 120 in the sand hills. Bullet selection was a poor choice I chose a 90 grn ballistic tip. Well it blew up on his front shoulder and we never found him. Last example that made my mind up. This year I watched a guy use a 6.5 creed and shoot an elk that was quartering away just a bit and he hit him perfect. It didn't have the juice to make it through. So that elk is dead now but we couldn't find the blood to track him. I took the same shot with a 300 wby imp and that elk spit that bullet out his mouth and we ate good that year. So yes bullet weight, speed, and energy at the target make up a lot. And while I realize smaller calibers will work I still say bigger is better. And for the last few years I would have agreed with you but I changed my mind. And I am not saying for YOU you should change anything as a matter of fact I will still hunt with my saum. But I shoot 4500 rounds a year and hit where I want to hit. And I k ow the limitations of my gun.
hunter67wa
Well-Known Member
Its hard to compare shot to shot on animals especially ones you dont find as well as bullet performance
I didn't read all 6 pages so forgive me if it's been said already. I personally think we debate caliber effectiveness more than hunter effectiveness. I like to shoot long range but I also like to bow hunt. What happened to the good ole days when we tried to see how close we could get to an animal and put a perfect shot on them? Now I see threads popping up about that's not a good caliber to shoot an elk at 1000 yards where might need a huge caliber because it is going to be a gut shot. Let's go back to the time where a real hunter new the effectiveness of their skill and gun and didn't rely on big bores to make up for lazy hunting or actual hunting skills.
Orange Dust
Well-Known Member
Never had a .26 or a 28Nosler. But I have shot quite a few animals with a 7MM Weatherby and an STW when it was a wildcat. Also had a big wildcat 8MM. The RUM is more like the 8 than a 7. Not in my head. I will say the two longest shots in my lifetime were with a .270 Weatherby, and the STW. They were both stupid far. The .270 was a deer and the STW an Aoudad. The deer was thought to be wounded by a friend, but wasn't, and the Aoudad was a bet with a guide on a desert mule deer hunt. They both died on the spot. Only 2 elk I ever shot were with a 300Wby and 200gr partitions years ago. They both died without incident.
memtb
Well-Known Member
I have followed this lengthy thread, and have found it ranging from humor, to logic, to borderline lunacy! With the knowledge that I've accumulated, I have concluded: that when I achieve absolute perfection as a shooter, my weapon will never fail to place the bullet "precisely" where intended, I have an animal that will not move "no matter what may disturb it" as I send the bullet on it's way, there will be no errant wind changes from muzzle to target, there is no potential for mirage to alter the sight picture, with no chance of "any" other things that may go wrong......I can cleanly, efficiently, kill large game (namely elk), sub 25 caliber bullets, of lightly jacketed construction, obviously with high BC's, with the said bullets hitting exactly where they are intended, out to ranges where nothing short of the Hubble Telescope will provide adequate target visual.
In conclusion, Because "all" potential environmental anomaly's cannot be controlled....I will continue to use a caliber and bullet type, and weight that will allow for a small error of bullet placement. The simple, and undeniable facts are.....all of the above stipulations are an impossibility! Obviously, it is the hunters ethical responsibility to be the best that he can be when taking, or attempting to take the life of a game animal. It "only" seems logical that the hunter, no matter how high their self esteem... use a bullet appropriately sized and designed for the game animal hunted, should be the primary requisite! JMO, and now stepping down from my soap box! memtb
In conclusion, Because "all" potential environmental anomaly's cannot be controlled....I will continue to use a caliber and bullet type, and weight that will allow for a small error of bullet placement. The simple, and undeniable facts are.....all of the above stipulations are an impossibility! Obviously, it is the hunters ethical responsibility to be the best that he can be when taking, or attempting to take the life of a game animal. It "only" seems logical that the hunter, no matter how high their self esteem... use a bullet appropriately sized and designed for the game animal hunted, should be the primary requisite! JMO, and now stepping down from my soap box! memtb
So I have a very different opinion of ethical hunting and cartridge choice than some of you on this forum, that is very apparent to me.
A doe in a field at 100 yards, a giant buck on a $7000 hunt in Alberta, a cow elk on a burn, or a 380" bull across a canyon....none of these situations dictate what cartridge I will choose or the shoots I will take or attempt!! Period!!
My range isn't dictated by the amount of powder I can shove in a brass casing or the BC of a dang bullet, it is dictated by my ability.
I say all that to say, I shoot cartridges that are more than adequate for the game, the distance and my ability. I am a hunter! I don't need to see how far I can kill one, I don't need to take risks because an animal is big or I may not fill my tag. I hunt hard to get as close as possible to the biggest animal I can. If I KNOW without doubt I can take that animal I will, if there is a chance that something may happen then I pass and wait for a new opportunity or I eat tag soup.
I can shoot a 4" group at 100 yards with my bow, and I have taken probably 20 or more Pope and Young whitetails with my bow and only 1 was taken over 25 yards. Because I can, doesn't mean I do.
Just my opinion.
Steve
A doe in a field at 100 yards, a giant buck on a $7000 hunt in Alberta, a cow elk on a burn, or a 380" bull across a canyon....none of these situations dictate what cartridge I will choose or the shoots I will take or attempt!! Period!!
My range isn't dictated by the amount of powder I can shove in a brass casing or the BC of a dang bullet, it is dictated by my ability.
I say all that to say, I shoot cartridges that are more than adequate for the game, the distance and my ability. I am a hunter! I don't need to see how far I can kill one, I don't need to take risks because an animal is big or I may not fill my tag. I hunt hard to get as close as possible to the biggest animal I can. If I KNOW without doubt I can take that animal I will, if there is a chance that something may happen then I pass and wait for a new opportunity or I eat tag soup.
I can shoot a 4" group at 100 yards with my bow, and I have taken probably 20 or more Pope and Young whitetails with my bow and only 1 was taken over 25 yards. Because I can, doesn't mean I do.
Just my opinion.
Steve
