Caliber choice, chasing the fad.

[Aeolus]

I understand and appreciate how the industry has continued to develop and make better bullets, powders, products in general. I have noticed the new Frind is to try and use the smallest caliber to kill the biggest game. Example the 6.5 prc shooting elk or moose. Does it work, sure it works and in the hands of a professional it works well. But I wonder if we forget the hunters of old. Basically it's a 270 that you try and stretch out a little more. It for many years bigger magnums were the standard, and they took a lot of game. I wonder if we should still consider this in caliber choice. The reason I have in mind is, we may not always have made the perfect heart and lung shot, maybe there was an unexpected gust of wind, and you hit it too far forward or too far back. The magnum would shoot through both shoulders or hind quarters, or really spill in a gut shot. This breaks them down and allows a much better chance of retrieving the animal. Face it we don't all always make perfect shots and harvest the perfect way, but losing some meat versus losing all the meat is a concern. So while I love the 6.5 creedmoor, lapua, prc, saum I have also seen them not preform as well with a bad shot as a 7 mag, 300 win, any of the bigger bullets. I am sure there will be some disagreement but then I am probably not talking to the creedmoor shooter that can constantly hit 5 inch groups at 1 k I am talking to the guy who wants to hunt long range and doesn't have practice time and spends thousands of hard earned money to come west and hunt.

 

[Mike 338]

I'm mostly in the same boat. It only takes a few moments for an animal to reach heavy cover or make it down to the bottom of the mountain before it expires. Best to anchor them where they are with enough fly swatter.

 

[memtb]

I'm too old to "chase"! Found what works, 20 years ago from prairie dogs to Cape Buffalo.....life is simple, when you choose to let it be simple! To each there own. I have many hobbies, and much work around our home place.....as much as I love firearms and have been hunting/shooting/ reloading/casting Bullets for 50+ years, there are other things that have been done! I choose "not" to be one dimensional! memtb

 

[MudRunner2005]

Careful, you're going to send the 6.5 CM & PRC supporters into an aneurism or stroke... Because what the marketing campaigns, gun editors, and you tubers told them was the opposite.

Dial 911 if you smell toast...

 

[Aeolus]

Careful, you're going to send the 6.5 CM & PRC supporters into an aneurism or stroke... Dial 911 if you smell toast...

Haha I know, that isn't my intentions. 2 years in a row I have seen trophy animals hit and we didn't find them. It got me thinking, why, why not just use a bigger caliber. The common thinking is meat savings or maybe it's better bc but really if you hit a deer correct with a 338 or 6.5 it doesn't waste useable meat but if you have a bad shot you waste an entire animal. And break your little girls heart!!! Haha so back to the old ways for me.

 

[J E Custom]

Every cartridge has It's practical limit. And if we stretch the limits, we are gambling at the expense of the game. today there is no reason to do this. Big bores come with more energy and also more recoil. If a person cant handle the recoil then a muzzle brake is a much better solution than using a light weight bullet/cartridge combination.

Yes the small bores will kill large game but the success rate will be lower. also the risk of losing the game is greater in some environments.

There will always be different opinions on this but there is no such thing as OVER KILL. Dead is Dead But often a small cartridge will require more than one shot and the second shot is never as good as the first.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[MudRunner2005]

Absolutely correct JE! You can compare some cartridges because they're nearly equal, like the 7mmRM vs. .300WM, or .28 Nosler vs. .30 Nosler, or .260 Rem vs. 6.5CM. But comparing a 6.5CM to a .300WM is like comparing a .223 to a 6.5CM. They're just simply in different leagues.

 

[dwightb]

Big bores really don't harm that much meat. I am not talking super fast magnums but big bores. Most big bores (375 and above) have well constructed bullets that expand but do not blow up. More surface area equals more thump! I have shot Texas whitetails with a 350 gr. 416 Rigby and it did less damage than a 140 gr. 270 but the animal went straight down. Practice with the biggest you can stand. Keith advocated large moderate speed bullets, his advice is still sound today!

 

[FIGJAM]

I understand and appreciate how the industry has continued to develop and make better bullets, powders, products in general. I have noticed the new Frind is to try and use the smallest caliber to kill the biggest game. Example the 6.5 prc shooting elk or moose. Does it work, sure it works and in the hands of a professional it works well. But I wonder if we forget the hunters of old. Basically it's a 270 that you try and stretch out a little more. It for many years bigger magnums were the standard, and they took a lot of game. I wonder if we should still consider this in caliber choice. The reason I have in mind is, we may not always have made the perfect heart and lung shot, maybe there was an unexpected gust of wind, and you hit it too far forward or too far back. The magnum would shoot through both shoulders or hind quarters, or really spill in a gut shot. This breaks them down and allows a much better chance of retrieving the animal. Face it we don't all always make perfect shots and harvest the perfect way, but losing some meat versus losing all the meat is a concern. So while I love the 6.5 creedmoor, lapua, prc, saum I have also seen them not preform as well with a bad shot as a 7 mag, 300 win, any of the bigger bullets. I am sure there will be some disagreement but then I am probably not talking to the creedmoor shooter that can constantly hit 5 inch groups at 1 k I am talking to the guy who wants to hunt long range and doesn't have practice time and spends thousands of hard earned money to come west and hunt.

A large magnum does not compensate for a lack of practice at the range or give somebody magic ability to hunt long range. I never understood that. Also, a gut shot bull elk with a 300 win mag or 7mm is the same as a gut shot elk with a 6.5 saum or 264 win mag. Margin of error at long range seems to come from misreading of wind, high BC bullets are the only compensating factor for error in wind calculation. One last thought - bullet selection, energy, and velocity at impact play a bigger role in busting through a shoulder and reaching the vitals than whether you choose to shoot a magnum or not. The magnum with the right recipe can extend your range, but still isn't a fix all.

 

[laker]

I think there's so little difference between a 6.5 and a 7mm that it's not worth debating about and people say the 7mm is just fine for elk.

One of these is a 160 grain 7mm started at 3200fps. One is a 168 grain 7mm started at 2850fps and the other is 140 grain 6.5 started at 2825fps and all were pulled from elk against the offside hide. All elk stumbled a short distance and fell over. Which is which

 

[Aeolus]

A large magnum does not compensate for a lack of practice at the range or give somebody magic ability to hunt long range. I never understood that. Also, a gut shot bull elk with a 300 win mag or 7mm is the same as a gut shot elk with a 6.5 saum or 264 win mag. Margin of error at long range seems to come from misreading of wind, high BC bullets are the only compensating factor for error in wind calculation. One last thought - bullet selection, energy, and velocity at impact play a bigger role in busting through a shoulder and reaching the vitals than whether you choose to shoot a magnum or not. The magnum with the right recipe can extend your range, but still isn't a fix all.

Valid points, I have said for years if you practice with your rifle like you do your bow 800 yards is a chip shot. But if that shot isn't perfect why not have more energy and a heavier bullet. I know a 6.5 saum with a 140 at 3100 will kill very well but so will say a 30 nosler.

 

[Aeolus]

I think there's so little difference between a 6.5 and a 7mm that it's not worth debating about and people say the 7mm is just fine for elk.
View attachment 120311
One of these is a 160 grain 7mm started at 3200fps. One is a 168 grain 7mm started at 2850fps and the other is 140 grain 6.5 started at 2825fps and all were pulled from elk against the offside hide. All elk stumbled a short distance and fell over. Which is which

Is it left to right 160 140 168? Just a guess.
I don't think the 6.5 is too small for elk, I have a friend who has shot 11 cows with a 6.5 creedmoor. They were all 2-500 yards. I killed an elk with a 6.5 saum a few months ago 624 one shot I hit him perfect. So it can be done. I just think the old timers had it right with bigger is better. But I made the argument for the smaller calibers for the last few years. And I am not saying if your educated and can shoot well that a 243 won't do the job. It will! Just there are more forgiving calibers.

 

[laker]

Is it left to right 160 140 168? Just a guess.
I don't think the 6.5 is too small for elk, I have a friend who has shot 11 cows with a 6.5 creedmoor. They were all 2-500 yards. I killed an elk with a 6.5 saum a few months ago 624 one shot I hit him perfect. So it can be done. I just think the old timers had it right with bigger is better. But I made the argument for the smaller calibers for the last few years. And I am not saying if your educated and can shoot well that a 243 won't do the job. It will! Just there are more forgiving calibers.

168 140 160

 

[Kristopher Megahan]

I think that the onslaught of new cartridges is debilitating, but I believe what we are seeing is a renaissance in case and bullet development. Let them rise and fall and land where they will and learn from it.
I load and shoot a 6.5-284 Norma I built about 10 years ago and I love it. It has killed critters large and small out to 400 with few ever taking much more than a step. It shoots everything well and I typically load whatever is on sale on USA Midway and spend a lot of time at the range figuring out where they are gonna hit Nos BT, ELD-x, GMX, Barnes ttx , traditional soft points.....They all work, at least in my rifle. Anecdotally, It seems to me that as the impact velocity increase over 2600 the 6.5 seems to drop the animal faster, and I have begun leaning more and more towards smaller faster bullets, at least inside 400 yds.

I will wade into the fray a little and say I got a friend who built a very nice 6.5 creed that i believe misses the mark by a couple hundred FPS in any projectile choice....so be it. He thinks its cool.