338... a revisit on a specific build.

[wonderman4]

I think you guys are baffled into thinking that a suppressor reduces recoil because of the noise reduction.


Now that I have your attention: they do reduce recoil substantially. This is the reason that I don't unnerstand why someone would choose a brake over a suppressor. I have absolutely no use for a brake.

 

[MtPockets]

I think you guys are baffled into thinking that a suppressor reduces recoil because of the noise reduction.


Now that I have your attention: they do reduce recoil substantially. This is the reason that I don't unnerstand why someone would choose a brake over a suppressor. I have absolutely no use for a brake.

I would love to shoot suppressed, except for two things- the price tag and the wait.

 

[surgeon260]

I think you guys are baffled into thinking that a suppressor reduces recoil because of the noise reduction.

With all due respect, I think you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[jrock]

I have a 338 Norma with a 26" barrel and brake. Running 300 grain Berger's at 2800 fps and 285 ELDM at 2875. Weight is 12 lbs with scope, easy to shoot, and if I were to do it again, I would target 10 lbs total weight. I put a spreadsheet together to compare the ELDs, bergers, and nosler ABLRs to compare energy and velocity at a baseline 1600 fps and 1600 ft*lbs of energy. The distance at which they reached those numbers were all within 100 yards of each other. Wind favored the higher BCs but not by a lot.

I think a 26"+ barrel with a can is pretty dang long. Having not used a can, I would might recommend going to the 30 cal bullets to get max velocity with a shorter barrel to offset the can length. 22" minimum. 250 grain 338's still hold a better BC than most 30 cal bullets but the velocity helps with terminal performance down range. Either way, you'd be good to go. Play with a ballistic calculator and see what you like.

 

[wonderman4]

With all due respect, I think you don't know what you are talking about.

With all due respect, I don't really care what you think.

 

[Kristopher Megahan]

I run a 338 Lapua with a 22" barrel and a lighter stock. The barrel was 28" but I ended up cutting it down since I acquired my suppressor and the 28 with the can was a hundred miles long. It's a heavily flutted med Palma contour with a light weight stock and a vortex hslr FFP scope(about 24 oz). Total weight with a hybrid 46 can, 3 rounds, stock pack, and sling is 10.1 lbs. I am getting 2700 FPS with 300 gr accubonds. I am going to try some 265 with some faster burning powder, just haven't gotten to it yet. I put an anchor brake on the can and it makes a ton of difference on the 338. Without it there is a ton of recoil. The can definitely slows the recoil, but there is a greater push than with the brake.... still the first time I shot the rifle with the can I threw the brake in the bushes....the hybrid is a small can for the 338, but I wanted a smaller can over a giant(quieter and $$$$) can as it still is very pleasant to shoot and now very maneuverable. I may rebarrel my Sako's to a 20-22" barrel in either a 33 or 375 caliber . I am loving the short suppressed rifles.

Sounds like we share similar visions. You are at 22" on Lapua with 46 hybrid and you tolerate it at 10 #. The rebarrel you mentioned even dropping length further to 20. It sounds like you place shortness over the extra speed. Interesting also that you mention the 375 as my original investigations started there with the 375 ruger but waned...

 

[Kristopher Megahan]

You want to shoot at elk with a Barnes 185 at 1000 yards? IMHO, that is a terrible idea.

One, you are going to have atrocious case fill with these big magnum cases and such a lightweight bullet. This typically leads to high ES/SD.

Two, the BC on that bullet is garbage compared to a heavy Berger or Sierra. Velocity at 1k is going to be so slow that you risk no expansion whatsoever. Even if you can push that 185 to 3500fps, a quick calculation on the Applied Ballistics calculator shows that at 1k the velocity has dropped to ~1250fps (~650 ft lbs of energy).

Three, that bullet is going to be blown all over the place by the wind.

With all due respect, I would raise serious ethical and bullet performance questions about shooting an elk at 1k with that bullet.

Thank you. I have a lot of terminal research left to do.

 

[AKdan]

Not sure if the "baffled into" things was a joke.....but I laughed... all the gasses still have to exit the end of the suppressor directly away from the shooter....so there is still a "rocket" and projectile acting in the opposite direction.....just saying...the suppressor does reduce recoil in the manner of slowing(extending the duration) of the recoil impulse.

 

[bigngreen]

Knock its wiener off. My current high velocity 6.5 (100 gr Nosler BT) and 300 WM (110gr gmx) loads (3200 and 3500 respectively) kill things very dead at 300- 400 yards where I shoot right now. I am not in this to practice tracking! I will have to learn a lot more about 338's and how they act terminal, but I have grown to love fast bullets....whatever case ends up on this build, I can promise Barnes and Gmx 185's will be in the test groups that get put through this rifle.

WOW, OK! So that changes everything, there isn't a chamberings large enough to make the 185 GMX pole axe an elk!!
The ballistics at 1000 yards are horrible, just ran a quick numbers and if you run it 3400 fps it hits 1000 at 1589 fps and 1037 ftlb of energy, compare that to a 338 Sherman Short with a 250 Berger at 2800, you have 1786 fps and just over 1700 ftlbs hitting them all at my elevation. I can tell you the 185 will be a wreck on elk and likely just plugging a hole through a deer with a lot of running after words!!

 

[AKdan]

Kristopher-

The 375 ruger is a round and has loads of potential.....just don't think bullet selection has made it very practical yet...there are only a pair or three(under exaggeration) bullets in the the 330-350 gr range that would provide high BC and be able to attain seven velocities when loaded long..even fewer I would be excited to hunt with.. with the exception of barrels made for the larger cheytac finding 1:10 or faster twist barrels in 375 means waiting for someone to make it...usually not readily available. This is my only hold up and why I still use a 338. I all reality once 240-250 gr bullets and 1:7/8 twist get popular in the .30 cal I will probably switch to a large 30 cal as the cans are smaller and less $$.

As far as barrel length...hunting with a can having the short barrel is very important..it's hard not to compare your velocities with what the potential is with a larger barrel but as others have said set YOUR parameters (weight,action, length, bullet choice, velocity, down range velocity(important for proper bullet expansion) and impact energies. Then select the cartridge that meets those criteria. I am sure I waste a ton of powder , but I wanted 2700fps out of a 300 gr bullet with stout bullet construction...it takes a little over 90 gr to get there with a 22" barrel.. your mileage may vary.

 

[Kristopher Megahan]

Thank you. I have a lot of terminal research left to do.

I just looked at quick load/quick target and with a 24" barrel in a lapua loaded with 89 gr of RL 19, MV with the 185gr is 3140, leaving about 2100fps and 1800 ft-lbs at 1000 yds. That isnt terrible. I have killed lots of things closer with similar velocity energy ratios and less SD. I do understand wind drift will play a much bigger role and I have a lot of shooting and studying to do.

I have had a lot of good results with light, high BC monolithics in smaller ccals in terms of wound generation, precision, weight retention and penetration, including in Elk at closer range. I have lots of work to do, but I am not writing them off for this project.

 

[Kristopher Megahan]

WOW, OK! So that changes everything, there isn't a chamberings large enough to make the 185 GMX pole axe an elk!!
The ballistics at 1000 yards are horrible, just ran a quick numbers and if you run it 3400 fps it hits 1000 at 1589 fps and 1037 ftlb of energy, compare that to a 338 Sherman Short with a 250 Berger at 2800, you have 1786 fps and just over 1700 ftlbs hitting them all at my elevation. I can tell you the 185 will be a wreck on elk and likely just plugging a hole through a deer with a lot of running after words!!

hmmm....Yall get real excited, I said I would look at them, Geez. I got very different results from QL as pointed out above these Monlithics have very High BC's, I will make sure I didnt mess something up when I added the bullet to the software.

 

[surgeon260]

I just looked at quick load/quick target and with a 24" barrel in a lapua loaded with 89 gr of RL 19, MV with the 185gr is 3140, leaving about 2100fps and 1800 ft-lbs at 1000 yds. That isnt terrible. I have killed lots of things closer with similar velocity energy ratios and less SD. I do understand wind drift will play a much bigger role and I have a lot of shooting and studying to do.

I have had a lot of good results with light, high BC monolithics in smaller ccals in terms of wound generation, precision, weight retention and penetration, including in Elk at closer range. I have lots of work to do, but I am not writing them off for this project.

Unless you are hunting elk on Mt Everest, I think your numbers are off.

 

[surgeon260]

Also don't trust Barnes' published BCs. ABM's Doppler-derived value is much more accurate.

Per Applied Ballistics: G1 BC of the 185 Barnes TTSX is 0.401. I would hardly classify that as "very high." The 300 Berger is 0.8+.