Tragic bear attack in Wyoming

[WildRose]

Sad deal

I can think of few worse ways to go than this. I really feel for his friends and family that will be playing it out in their heads for who knows how long.

 

[Hand Skills]

Police officers in general get very little training with their handguns...

Tell me if I'm out of line here, but I believe a lack of training is common among gun owners in general.

 

[WildRose]

Tell me if I'm out of line here, but I believe a lack of training is common among gun owners in general.

The average sport shooter gets far more training and practice than the average LEO, it's just a sad fact.

There are of course plenty of irresponsible gun owners that i'm surprised can figure out which end to point downrange.

 

[D.Camilleri]

I have been sitting on the sidelines reading this thread. First, I am truly sorry for the loss the family of the guide has suffered. Second, this should be a wake up call to all of us that hunt in Grizzly country. When I was in law enforcement, I would play out possible outcomes of high risk calls like robbery in progress. Playing out the scenario in my head would help me to think of what might happen or go wrong with the end result of going home to my family at the end of my shift.

Back to bears, they are unpredictable, and the scenarios can be not what you would normally think. Run into a bear in the dark, they see well we don't, not good. Bear sneaks up on you while you are a hillside, where is your rifle? Are you wearing your handgun? Do you have a round in the chamber?

Last week I was deer hunting with a buddy, I found myself being sloppy with my personal protection. I was glassing with my rifle 10 feet away, it didn't have a round in the chamber, nor did my buddies. My 454 was in my tent, not on me. At night I slept with my 454 under my pillow, at one point I had it unholstered and on the side of my cot, then I played out a scenario and realized I could not reach the gun due to my restrictive sleeping bag. I moved the gun back under my pillow.

My elk hunting area has more Grizzlies than my deer hunting area, I try to be pro-active. I always wear my 454 in an Alaskan cross draw shoulder holster, not blocked by my back pack. I wear a walker game ear in my right ear to help me hear things my old ears might miss, like breaking branches. I hunt with a round up the pipe except when walking in steep hills where I could fall. I carry extra ammo for rifle and pistol, just in case. I typically don't carry bear spray, even though I get chastised by forest service personnel.

I know people that have been charged by Grizzly bears, that shot the bear and killed it. I also know a person that was ambushed by a sow with cubs while he was glassing a herd of elk. His rifle wasn't right next to him, and the bear attacked, he got to his gun and shot the bear once, point blank 338 win mag 200 grain ballistic tip. The shot lacked penetration for a clean kill, the bear attached again and the guys hunting partner picked up the gun and finished the bear off.

Last year I switched from 300 grain Berger OTM's in my 338 rum to 300 grain Accubonds for massive penetration. Still not sure which is better though, massive penetration or massive shrapnel. I still like a large bullet, you won't catch me with a 6.5 anything.

I do my best not to leave any kills in bear country over night. I try to get the animal quartered and packed out on my horse, preferably before dark. If I have to leave meat, I try to move the quarters 100 yards from the gut pile and leave the quarters in a place that I can see if they have been disturbed from a safe distance and I go in on high alert ready for a fight. I do not go back to my gut piles or carcass! I have forgot ivories a time or two, not worth the risk.

I have had several encounters with Grizzly bears and it isn't fun, it requires making hard decisions and sharpening your skills and hoping for the best. I don't believe in a false charge anymore than a man pointing a gun at me, both will be met with deadly force. I am not stupid enough to know I will always win, but if I loose a fight to a bear, I want to know that I did my best and I acted smart with the best chance for victory and survival.

In the end, there will be more bear attacks and hopefully people will have learned to use the tools we have available to come out on top and bear spray isn't a tool I will use. My last trip into Yellowstone was with my 454 in a holster under my shirt easily accessible.

 

[D.Camilleri]

I have been sitting on the sidelines reading this thread. First, I am truly sorry for the loss the family of the guide has suffered. Second, this should be a wake up call to all of us that hunt in Grizzly country. When I was in law enforcement, I would play out possible outcomes of high risk calls like robbery in progress. Playing out the scenario in my head would help me to think of what might happen or go wrong with the end result of going home to my family at the end of my shift.

Back to bears, they are unpredictable, and the scenarios can be not what you would normally think. Run into a bear in the dark, they see well we don't, not good. Bear sneaks up on you while you are a hillside, where is your rifle? Are you wearing your handgun? Do you have a round in the chamber?

Last week I was deer hunting with a buddy, I found myself being sloppy with my personal protection. I was glassing with my rifle 10 feet away, it didn't have a round in the chamber, nor did my buddies. My 454 was in my tent, not on me. At night I slept with my 454 under my pillow, at one point I had it unholstered and on the side of my cot, then I played out a scenario and realized I could not reach the gun due to my restrictive sleeping bag. I moved the gun back under my pillow.

My elk hunting area has more Grizzlies than my deer hunting area, I try to be pro-active. I always wear my 454 in an Alaskan cross draw shoulder holster, not blocked by my back pack. I wear a walker game ear in my right ear to help me hear things my old ears might miss, like breaking branches. I hunt with a round up the pipe except when walking in steep hills where I could fall. I carry extra ammo for rifle and pistol, just in case. I typically don't carry bear spray, even though I get chastised by forest service personnel.

I know people that have been charged by Grizzly bears, that shot the bear and killed it. I also know a person that was ambushed by a sow with cubs while he was glassing a herd of elk. His rifle wasn't right next to him, and the bear attacked, he got to his gun and shot the bear once, point blank 338 win mag 200 grain ballistic tip. The shot lacked penetration for a clean kill, the bear attached again and the guys hunting partner picked up the gun and finished the bear off.

Last year I switched from 300 grain Berger OTM's in my 338 rum to 300 grain Accubonds for massive penetration. Still not sure which is better though, massive penetration or massive shrapnel. I still like a large bullet, you won't catch me with a 6.5 anything.

I do my best not to leave any kills in bear country over night. I try to get the animal quartered and packed out on my horse, preferably before dark. If I have to leave meat, I try to move the quarters 100 yards from the gut pile and leave the quarters in a place that I can see if they have been disturbed from a safe distance and I go in on high alert ready for a fight. I do not go back to my gut piles or carcass! I have forgot ivories a time or two, not worth the risk.

I have had several encounters with Grizzly bears and it isn't fun, it requires making hard decisions and sharpening your skills and hoping for the best. I don't believe in a false charge anymore than a man pointing a gun at me, both will be met with deadly force. I am not stupid enough to know I will always win, but if I loose a fight to a bear, I want to know that I did my best and I acted smart with the best chance for victory and survival.

In the end, there will be more bear attacks and hopefully people will have learned to use the tools we have available to come out on top and bear spray isn't a tool I will use. My last trip into Yellowstone was with my 454 in a holster under my shirt easily accessible.

 

[KyCarl]

I think a 9MM would work just fine! Put it in something like a
Heckler & Koch MP7 and shoot the bears face off! ..147 grain JHP's at the rate that thing fires he would run or die. Or bump it up to something like a 7.62 X 51 MM?
They are heavy is the problem.. I don't think it's what you use but PAYING ATTENTION
or NOT that is the real answer??

 

[WildRose]

I think a 9MM would work just fine! Put it in something like a
Heckler & Koch MP7 and shoot the bears face off! ..147 grain JHP's at the rate that thing fires he would run or die. Or bump it up to something like a 7.62 X 51 MM?
They are heavy is the problem.. I don't think it's what you use but PAYING ATTENTION
or NOT that is the real answer??

The big problem with bears is the heavy coat, tough hide and a massive amount of dense muscle and bone to get through before you hit anything that matters hence a heave, deep penetrating slug is pretty well essential.

If all I had was a 9mm to carry in bear country I'd carry it but I'd certainly get a heavier caliber upgrade as fast as I could.

Shooting a bear with a 9mm more than likely is just going to make him mad.

I've watched numerous videos of big grizz and brown bears soaking up shot after shot from .300wm's, 300 Rum's and various 338's and 375's and still have more then enough fight in them to kill a human before expiring.

When I make my dream bear hunting trip to AK the lightest thing I'll carry will be a .300 RUM as a backup with one of my .375's as the primary and the titanium 44mag will have the heaviest bear loads I can find.

For black bears the .41mag will be more than plenty and I've got decades of confidence in it having killed quite a few large boars (hogs) with it.

 

[CoachChris]

This is a good podcast
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-hunt-backcountry-podcast

 

[HARPERC]

.....I typically don't carry bear spray, even though I get chastised by forest service personnel.

......I don't believe in a false charge anymore than a man pointing a gun at me, both will be met with deadly force.......

The forest service is a whole 'nother long thread.

Most of us have heard the 21' rule for human self defense.....Compare that with the range of bear spray, factor in how much faster bears are.

Predatory attacks don't necessarily mean a charge, a bear moving in slowly for position is dangerous as well.

A bear that knows your there and doesn't skedaddle, or won't let you increase the distance between you is a problem.

 

[Wedgy]

A 9mm is not a good choice, when I worked in South Central LA we had several cases where a drunk Samoan took over twenty 9mm hits in the torso and still kept coming, and a grizzly is much bigger.

 

[hunterbob]

UPDATE: (3:38pm): Mark Uptain's body has been found. We regret to inform that he has passed away. Our deepest condolences to his family and friends.

Two hunters were involved in a bear attack Friday, September 14, in the Teton Wilderness while field dressing an elk near Terrace Mountain, approximately 5.8 miles northeast of the Turpin Meadow Trailhead.

Florida resident Corey Chubon shot an elk during a guided bow hunt late Thursday afternoon. He and his guide, Mark Uptain of Martin Outfitters, were unable to locate the wounded animal before nightfall. The pair returned Friday morning to locate and remove the elk. They found the undisturbed carcass in the early afternoon and were preparing to pack out the elk when they were aggressively charged by two large bears.

Mark Uptain, 37, is owner of Blue Sky Restoration and the guide still missing.
Chubon was able to run to his pack a few yards away and retrieve a pistol but was unable to safely fire a shot at the bear that had pounced upon Uptain. The attacking bear then spun, charged Chubon, grabbed his foot and dragged him to the ground. He sustained injuries to his leg, chest, and arm, but was able to throw the gun to Uptain and get loose before running from the scene to phone for help.

Initial reports indicate that the second bear did not engage either Chubon or Uptain.

An interagency helicopter was dispatched to the scene to assist with transport of the injured hunters. Chubon was taken to St. John's Medical Center for treatment to his wounds. Search and Rescue personnel were unable to locate Uptain before the search was suspended for the evening.

An interagency team from the Teton County Sheriff's Office, Teton County Search and Rescue, Wyoming Game and Fish Department, Grand Teton National Park, and Bridger-Teton National Forest have resumed the search at 6:30am this morning. Game wardens will look for evidence that may indicate if the bears were grizzlies.

Undersheriff Matt Carr stated, "Search and Rescue is currently in the field, and we're making every effort to locate and bring Mr. Uptain out from the backcountry."

An incident command post and helicopter landing zone has been established near Turpin Meadow Ranch. Ground and air resources are being utilized for this search and updates will be provided as available. Other hunters in the area should be aware of the search and rescue operations and the recent bear activity.

Tragic is all I can say, but if you hunt with me,, I will not leave you....We came together and we fight together.

 

[D.Camilleri]

The 21 foot rule is for a man with a knife, a bear is much faster

 

[BigGrizz]

I have been sitting on the sidelines reading this thread. First, I am truly sorry for the loss the family of the guide has suffered. Second, this should be a wake up call to all of us that hunt in Grizzly country. When I was in law enforcement, I would play out possible outcomes of high risk calls like robbery in progress. Playing out the scenario in my head would help me to think of what might happen or go wrong with the end result of going home to my family at the end of my shift.

Back to bears, they are unpredictable, and the scenarios can be not what you would normally think. Run into a bear in the dark, they see well we don't, not good. Bear sneaks up on you while you are a hillside, where is your rifle? Are you wearing your handgun? Do you have a round in the chamber?

Last week I was deer hunting with a buddy, I found myself being sloppy with my personal protection. I was glassing with my rifle 10 feet away, it didn't have a round in the chamber, nor did my buddies. My 454 was in my tent, not on me. At night I slept with my 454 under my pillow, at one point I had it unholstered and on the side of my cot, then I played out a scenario and realized I could not reach the gun due to my restrictive sleeping bag. I moved the gun back under my pillow.

My elk hunting area has more Grizzlies than my deer hunting area, I try to be pro-active. I always wear my 454 in an Alaskan cross draw shoulder holster, not blocked by my back pack. I wear a walker game ear in my right ear to help me hear things my old ears might miss, like breaking branches. I hunt with a round up the pipe except when walking in steep hills where I could fall. I carry extra ammo for rifle and pistol, just in case. I typically don't carry bear spray, even though I get chastised by forest service personnel.

I know people that have been charged by Grizzly bears, that shot the bear and killed it. I also know a person that was ambushed by a sow with cubs while he was glassing a herd of elk. His rifle wasn't right next to him, and the bear attacked, he got to his gun and shot the bear once, point blank 338 win mag 200 grain ballistic tip. The shot lacked penetration for a clean kill, the bear attached again and the guys hunting partner picked up the gun and finished the bear off.

Last year I switched from 300 grain Berger OTM's in my 338 rum to 300 grain Accubonds for massive penetration. Still not sure which is better though, massive penetration or massive shrapnel. I still like a large bullet, you won't catch me with a 6.5 anything.

I do my best not to leave any kills in bear country over night. I try to get the animal quartered and packed out on my horse, preferably before dark. If I have to leave meat, I try to move the quarters 100 yards from the gut pile and leave the quarters in a place that I can see if they have been disturbed from a safe distance and I go in on high alert ready for a fight. I do not go back to my gut piles or carcass! I have forgot ivories a time or two, not worth the risk.

I have had several encounters with Grizzly bears and it isn't fun, it requires making hard decisions and sharpening your skills and hoping for the best. I don't believe in a false charge anymore than a man pointing a gun at me, both will be met with deadly force. I am not stupid enough to know I will always win, but if I loose a fight to a bear, I want to know that I did my best and I acted smart with the best chance for victory and survival.

In the end, there will be more bear attacks and hopefully people will have learned to use the tools we have available to come out on top and bear spray isn't a tool I will use. My last trip into Yellowstone was with my 454 in a holster under my shirt easily accessible.

I agree with everything you have offered, Mr. Camilleri. Very well composed statement.

I as well have combed through this article, some of it skimmed for the sake of giving more attention to longer posts with meatier content.

I think I can simplify the approach to bear country for passers-by that dream of the day when they may be granted the experience of a true wilderness hunt in the Northern Rockies, Alaska or Canada; and those tough guys out there that think they have it figure out.

-Carry the **** bear spray. It doesn't weigh that much more, and you'll be by God glad you had it when/if you need it. ONE IS NONE, TWO IS ONE! CARRY SPRAY AND FIREARM BOTH!

-Keep the semiauto pistols at home. Don't come at me with that 10mm sissy crap. You carry a six shot revolver with power. Why? Because the **** thing doesn't jam, it has more *** than some gosh darn Glock and you will not be reloading. Period. You're life and your loved ones matter so limit risk.

-At camp keep rifles handy. If possible, short barreled 12ga shotguns are the "go to". When nature calls at night is a different story. You're mind will run wild if you don't know what to listen and smell for.

Now for my personal policy which has never been exercised, but will be given another opportunity 3 weeks from now in the Thorofare:

When in doubt, shoot that brown shaggy thing in the face. It's you or that critter, and you will not be able to discern a bluff charge from the real thing. I'm on team people and think that answering questions later on for proper authorities is less pain than getting my head crushed by a bear's jaws.

Situations with apex predators are not a joke. Murphy's Law reigns supreme in those situations, guys. I think many of us are capable, but when the fit hits the shan you're best bet is to be prepared to the maximum and limit you're operational risk.

What Mr. Uptain and his hunter experienced was a predatory act. Not self-defense or intimidating acts. The sow was teaching her 1.5 year old cub to hunt. It was a rare circumstance that ended with someone losing his life.

I would encourage you all to read the WGFD report on the website that summarizes the events. I know many of us in the area find many of the official statements very fishy.

 

[D.Camilleri]

One other thing to keep in mind, grizzly bears can be killed with a 22 to the head, they do this in Glacier Park to keep quiet, and dispatch problem bears, but the the bear is not full of adrenaline, I will stay with too dead is just enough gun!