How to blowup your rifle
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bigngreen
Well-Known Member
So to get back on track here, both loads we're using the same powder, primer and brass?
Both loads we're previously know good loads in the rifle
Both loads shot in similar condition with the lock up occurring with only a change of bullet and charge level?
Remaining rounds were confirmed the correct charge?
Sound about right?
Both loads we're previously know good loads in the rifle
Both loads shot in similar condition with the lock up occurring with only a change of bullet and charge level?
Remaining rounds were confirmed the correct charge?
Sound about right?
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
Barrelnut
Well-Known Member
Lots of plausible reasons here. Especially if you add them all up and then have a perfect storm effect at minus -10 dreggs.
I cannot keep from wondering about the powder though, because several shooters on this thread have reported similar instances with Retumbo. That cannot be coincidence.
I have noticed that Retumbo clumps easily...I used to shoot a lot of retumbo in my RUM and 25-06. One thing I noticed about it is it's tendency to clump. I is very noticeable when pulling a bullet and dumping a load of retumo from a case. I have not noticed this with other powders.
So, I just took a loaded 25-06 case with Retumbo and an Accubond and dumped it. Sure enough there were clumps. You can see two in the attached pic. there were three others, but they tore apart when I tweezered them.
I know the OP's case was at about 98% case fill with Retumbo. So there wasn't much room for a hangfire or powder bridging. But just wondering how Retumbo might clump at -10 or -20 degrees and if it might have some sort of effect.
I cannot keep from wondering about the powder though, because several shooters on this thread have reported similar instances with Retumbo. That cannot be coincidence.
I have noticed that Retumbo clumps easily...I used to shoot a lot of retumbo in my RUM and 25-06. One thing I noticed about it is it's tendency to clump. I is very noticeable when pulling a bullet and dumping a load of retumo from a case. I have not noticed this with other powders.
So, I just took a loaded 25-06 case with Retumbo and an Accubond and dumped it. Sure enough there were clumps. You can see two in the attached pic. there were three others, but they tore apart when I tweezered them.
I know the OP's case was at about 98% case fill with Retumbo. So there wasn't much room for a hangfire or powder bridging. But just wondering how Retumbo might clump at -10 or -20 degrees and if it might have some sort of effect.
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jimbires
Well-Known Member
H1000 is the worst powder I've seen for clumping . it clumps in the 8 pound jug . pull a bullet and the powder will not pour out , you have to dig it out .
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I don't think the clumping is unusual. I see this with most loads that have been loaded for a while.
Steve
Steve
High humidity >>> http://www.uniquetek.com/store/696296/uploaded/Humidity_and_Handloading.pdf and static >>> http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/11/reloading-tip-eliminate-static-cling-in-powder-measures/ "can" cause clumping.
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elkaholic
Well-Known Member
There is no question that environment can have some adverse affects on internal ballistics. Last year I had an experience with water in the barrel that I posted on and this year, I had another strange thing happen that has not been talked about yet. I had a load with N570 behind a 225 grain ELDM that I ran a ladder test on at summertime temps (I think mid 70 degrees)? I chose a load that shot very well that was 3 grains less than my max load fired. This fall I fired 2 rounds at 40 degrees while hunting. The rounds had been in the magazine overnight in camp (not heated) I blew the primers on both rounds!!! No water in the barrel this time, but could have had SOME condensation?? The only known difference was the temp, which doesn't seem that extreme to me! I have been reloading for 50 years, and both of these things were new to me. At least to this extreme!.....Rich
Old wives' tales and pixie dust are as credible as any possible explanation put forward thus far.
Operator error? Or is that too inflammatory...
Locking up the bolt isn't a slight overload, in my experience. And the OP hasn't described any significant temperature variation. As for humidity and condensation, I believe I could submerge my barrel in water, shake it out, and fire one of my max pressure reloaded rounds without locking up the bolt.
Takes a huge hike in pressure to go from stiff bolt to having to cut the action apart in order to disassemble the bolt.
Operator error? Or is that too inflammatory...
Locking up the bolt isn't a slight overload, in my experience. And the OP hasn't described any significant temperature variation. As for humidity and condensation, I believe I could submerge my barrel in water, shake it out, and fire one of my max pressure reloaded rounds without locking up the bolt.
Takes a huge hike in pressure to go from stiff bolt to having to cut the action apart in order to disassemble the bolt.
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HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Nope, not if that's your experience. My experience with 215's is very good, that doesn't mean I should believe it's universal. Or that someone else's poor experience is a personality defect.
Rich, was this a button rifled or cut rifled barrel?
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Cut. 4 groove Krieger
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
WOW. This post has gotten off track since I last looked at It and my observations will not change that. But I will go back to the issue the poster ask.
We are all just guessing because there are so many things that could have gone wrong we will probably never know.
If it were mine This is what "I" would have done when I stuck the case.
This is not to point fingers at the OP, or rule out any of the suggestions It is just to analyze what went wrong.
First thing I would have done is to stop shooting and brought rifle home
for a tear down to try and save the rifle. and not destroy any potential
evidence.
After removing the barrel (I have the tools and experience) I would remove the case and inspect the chamber, the barrel, the bolt and the action for and discrepancies . Then I would perform all the necessary test to determine if everything was ok. If everything looked ok I would reassemble the barrel and action and check head space for bolt set back. If everything mechanical was still ok then I would move on to the next step to try and determine what was wrong with the load.
First I would pull one or more of the bullets from the same loads to check powder charge and bullet diameter and weight. This should catch any discrepancy in the other loads. If everything was in order I would look for a potential problem like case density and case length (Powder density need to be over 90% with most powders and 95 to 100% with other powders and case combinations, Cases that exceed chamber lengths in the neck can also cause pressures to go sky high with the same load as a case trimmed to correct lengths.
I don't know if the "Bad" load was worked up like the lighter bullet load
But any change in a single component for a load should be first reduced and then worked up to velocities or pressures desired. I "once" changed bullets of the same weight and changed the velocity by almoset100 ft/sec. I like all of the ballistic programs for reference but never trust them enough to start with maximum loads.
This process might not answer the questions as to why, because there are so many things that will/can effect loads And if I still did nor find any problem I would make a note in my loading book never to use this combination again. So I would start over again and check for the correct powder (I place everything not in the load data out of reach in its storage) set the bullets to be used on the loading table and verify they are the correct ones, Next verify that the listed primers are correct. and check the powder for freshness (Old powder has an acidic smell) If everything is good check each case for length and start over.
I know that this seam very elementary, but I have to start all over If I have had a problem and don't know the reason for the problem so I don't make the same mistake twice.
Just what I would do if it happened to me
J E CUSTOM
We are all just guessing because there are so many things that could have gone wrong we will probably never know.
If it were mine This is what "I" would have done when I stuck the case.
This is not to point fingers at the OP, or rule out any of the suggestions It is just to analyze what went wrong.
First thing I would have done is to stop shooting and brought rifle home
for a tear down to try and save the rifle. and not destroy any potential
evidence.
After removing the barrel (I have the tools and experience) I would remove the case and inspect the chamber, the barrel, the bolt and the action for and discrepancies . Then I would perform all the necessary test to determine if everything was ok. If everything looked ok I would reassemble the barrel and action and check head space for bolt set back. If everything mechanical was still ok then I would move on to the next step to try and determine what was wrong with the load.
First I would pull one or more of the bullets from the same loads to check powder charge and bullet diameter and weight. This should catch any discrepancy in the other loads. If everything was in order I would look for a potential problem like case density and case length (Powder density need to be over 90% with most powders and 95 to 100% with other powders and case combinations, Cases that exceed chamber lengths in the neck can also cause pressures to go sky high with the same load as a case trimmed to correct lengths.
I don't know if the "Bad" load was worked up like the lighter bullet load
But any change in a single component for a load should be first reduced and then worked up to velocities or pressures desired. I "once" changed bullets of the same weight and changed the velocity by almoset100 ft/sec. I like all of the ballistic programs for reference but never trust them enough to start with maximum loads.
This process might not answer the questions as to why, because there are so many things that will/can effect loads And if I still did nor find any problem I would make a note in my loading book never to use this combination again. So I would start over again and check for the correct powder (I place everything not in the load data out of reach in its storage) set the bullets to be used on the loading table and verify they are the correct ones, Next verify that the listed primers are correct. and check the powder for freshness (Old powder has an acidic smell) If everything is good check each case for length and start over.
I know that this seam very elementary, but I have to start all over If I have had a problem and don't know the reason for the problem so I don't make the same mistake twice.
Just what I would do if it happened to me
J E CUSTOM
