338 Lapua AI or Something off the Rum case

[Wachsmann]

So I have a Remington 300 Rum. There are a few build options for this action and the large case. Well really 3 that only come to mind which is the 338 edge, 338 edge AI, or I think there is another design that offers a little more that is the 338 Texan.
On the other hand is to do a custom 338AI build. I think in the long run of things the 338 Lapua AI would be the better build simply base on the fact of brass and its availability. The Rum options I would have to be buying Nosler or Norma brass and its not always around. Not that I'm going to make this happen soon but I started my savings for it and just trying to way out the pros and cons. With the Rum I might keep it in some type of Sendero configuration or have my stock channel opened up a little to possibally take a larger diameter barrel. If I go the other route then I will be purchasing everything. My end goal is to have a gun that I can take out in the field to hunt with on certain occasions but also shoot for extended long range recreational shooting at something like 2000 to 2500 yards as my skills get better. I also will be mainly looking at running a 300grn bullet. I guess I like busting the rocks at the 1000yrd mark and futher out (as my skills improve). Just wondering what my be the pros and cons. I know the first pro for the Lapua is brass. I think the second might the 338AI will have a little more gas to push the 300 grain bullets. I know over all the 338 Lapua AI would cost more but at this level I don't think I really need to worry to much on cost for shooting. I think it may be more so on the componets of reloading materials (finding brass). Any thoughts or experiences on this would be helpful. thanks.

 

[yobuck]

Talk about shooting 2000 yds and further is much easier than actually doing it.
And after you have a few times you might even think, why am I actually trying this?
If that is your goal, id advise going larger. If long range hunting is your primary goal,
id be seriously considering the Edge. Bolt face size is one good reason alone.
Ive watched them out to 1600 yards with even 250 gr bullets do very very well.

 

[CA48]

Bertram makes 338 edge head stamped brass available from defensive edge. It is top notch much tougher and more consistent than the current options. Defensive edge also chambers a 338 edge +P that shoots 300 gr a little over 2900 fps in a 30 in bbl without excessive pressure. The +p has to be run as a single shot though, and it is the standard edge chamber so no fire forming. I have a 338 edge AI that will comfortably shoot 300 gr pills at 2950 in a 30 in bbl but I run it at 2785fps for brass and BBL life. Like YO said though if you plan on doing most of your shooting past 2000 and want consistent results, you will be better off going to 338 or 375 variant on the Chey tac case.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I think on a standard size action your best bet is the Lapua improved of some sort. I am not so sure that it is more expensive as the brass lasts longer. Just a bit hotter than the Ultramag offerings. If you want to stay with your original action go with RUM.

Steve

 

[boscodog]

I'm very impressed with the standard 338 edge! I'm pushing 300grn bergers out of a 28" Bartlien barrel just over 3000 fps using RL33, no pressure signe. I'm up to 4 firings using Rem brass, when it comes time to buy brass again I'm wondering if Norma at $200 each would be better than Bertram? Anyone have any experience with the two?

Tom

 

[Wachsmann]

so is the edge just a 300 ultra mag case necked up or did the angle on the neck change? Also getting 3000 fps is aswome ins a 28 inch barrel.

 

[boscodog]

so is the edge just a 300 ultra mag case necked up or did the angle on the neck change? Also getting 3000 fps is aswome ins a 28 inch barrel.

Yes-300 rum necked up. 3000 is awesome, I've pushed it up to 3076 but stats were best (and great) at 3010. I started testing with H1000 and was pounding brass with 92grns and was only able to get 2808 fps.

Still hoping to hear from someone who has experienced the difference between Norma and Bertram brass, I've tested nosler and found it to be to soft.

Thought I'd also mention that since my son and I have started using the edge with 300grn bergers, results are extremely good on large game, moose and caribou, at long distance!

Tom

 

[CA48]

I'm very impressed with the standard 338 edge! I'm pushing 300grn bergers out of a 28" Bartlien barrel just over 3000 fps using RL33, no pressure signe. I'm up to 4 firings using Rem brass, when it comes time to buy brass again I'm wondering if Norma at $200 each would be better than Bertram? Anyone have any experience with the two? Tom

I really doubt the Norma brass would be better. I haven't measured my Bertram brass for consistency. But from what I'm told it's very consistent and much tougher than rem or Norma brass. When I was first purchasing brass for my edge after talking with some people I ended up going with rem brass because it is harder and guys were running the Norma brass about 100 fps slower to increase brass life and the Bertram brass was not available at the time. In my edge imp pressue testing with RL33 I ran the 300 Berger to 3050fps before an ejector mark showed with the veteran brass. When I weight sorted my Rem brass out of 300 pieces the ES was 13 grains. I used to keep it all separated but now I run it all together because I couldn't see any real difference in real world accuracy. At the pressures I run at my rem brass will last a long time. I have put one case through 15 firings just to test it and stopped there because I was tired of doing it. Primer pockets were still tight, and I believe I annealed every 5 firings during that process. If you ever run the Rem brass trim the flash holes. I would say go with Bertram and never look back, if you have detailed questions give Shawn Carlock a call at defensive edge and he can help ya.

so is the edge just a 300 ultra mag case necked up or did the angle on the neck change? Also getting 3000 fps is aswome ins a 28 inch barrel.

No angle Change on the neck, just size it up. Sounds like you have a fast barrel, what powder are you using? On the average you can expect around 2800 fps with that barrel length.

 

[boscodog]

I really doubt the Norma brass would be better. I haven't measured my Bertram brass for consistency. But from what I'm told it's very consistent and much tougher than rem or Norma brass. When I was first purchasing brass for my edge after talking with some people I ended up going with rem brass because it is harder and guys were running the Norma brass about 100 fps slower to increase brass life and the Bertram brass was not available at the time. In my edge imp pressue testing with RL33 I ran the 300 Berger to 3050fps before an ejector mark showed with the veteran brass. When I weight sorted my Rem brass out of 300 pieces the ES was 13 grains. I used to keep it all separated but now I run it all together because I couldn't see any real difference in real world accuracy. At the pressures I run at my rem brass will last a long time. I have put one case through 15 firings just to test it and stopped there because I was tired of doing it. Primer pockets were still tight, and I believe I annealed every 5 firings during that process. If you ever run the Rem brass trim the flash holes. I would say go with Bertram and never look back, if you have detailed questions give Shawn Carlock a call at defensive edge and he can help ya.






No angle Change on the neck, just size it up. Sounds like you have a fast barrel, what powder are you using? On the average you can expect around 2800 fps with that barrel length.

I'm not sure how to grab individual quotes as you have here so I'll grab the whole thing.

Thank you for this information and very happy to hear about the Rem brass, I have a bit. The reason I wanted to know about Norma vs Bertram is the cost, I Believe that you can get Norma brass for two dollars each and Burtram brass for three dollars each?

I'm crunching 109grns of RL33 into the case, before I started using HBN I was able to get the same speed and stats with 106.5grns.

Tom

 

[Doublezranch]

It's truly in all you want to do. If 2k yards is your goal, my option is 375. 338 is a very, very good caliber that can do many things and could certainly obtain reasonable goals. However with the advances in 375 bullets, 2k yard gun can easily be built, a shooter that can achieve this is a different story.

If your mind is made up, I would give the Texan a good look. I was able to achieve 3100 fps with a 300 grain bullet with easy bolt lift. The only thing you would really need is a 338 barrel of your choice and length. Mine is 31".

No matter what you decide, all your choices have the ability for long range kills.

Jayson

 

[Wachsmann]

It's truly in all you want to do. If 2k yards is your goal, my option is 375. 338 is a very, very good caliber that can do many things and could certainly obtain reasonable goals. However with the advances in 375 bullets, 2k yard gun can easily be built, a shooter that can achieve this is a different story.

If your mind is made up, I would give the Texan a good look. I was able to achieve 3100 fps with a 300 grain bullet with easy bolt lift. The only thing you would really need is a 338 barrel of your choice and length. Mine is 31".

No matter what you decide, all your choices have the ability for long range kills.

Jayson

So I have heard remarks before that the 300 grain bullet weight is a lot of force on the barrel as it spins down the barrel. In the normal Sendero contour people have stated they think or say they are experienced barrel whip and had to drop down to a 250 grain bullet. If not wanting to experience this what are some of the contours that might resolve this type of effect. I really don't know how much this takes place since it looks like some of the 338 Edge's have the Sendero contour design and shoot 300 grain pills very well. Also what powder are you running and at what charge weight in the Texan. If 3100 is achievable then that would really be awesome or 3000 would even be awesome as well. That would really be something to grow into as my skills improve.
Also its still in the air about the caliber...I am still leaning more toward the 338 cal just because when I need bullets I can get them pretty easy. I was leaning a little more toward the 338 Lapua AI due to always being able to find brass at my local stores. On the other hand I did run across 100 375 RUM cases and I pretty sure they are still at the store right now. So I think in a previous post different location on the form the 375 cases were getting necked down to the 338. That might be something to buy now if I was to go with the Texan and if I don't use them I can sail them.

 

[Doublezranch]

Your statements are correct. The 300 grain bullet is quite a bit for a fluted sendero barrel. Mine had terrible whip with the 300 grain bullets. However, if you had a larger contour I think you could eliminate most if not all of the whip. The easiest way to fireform the Texan is with the 375 rum brass. All you need to do is neck it down to 338. Create a doughnut so the case is tight in the chamber and pull the trigger. Perfect formed 338 Texan cases. You can even hunt with your fireform loads if you wish. Since 375 Rum brass is hard to find and your seriously looking into the caliber, I would buy the brass. If you decide on the Lapua, you can sell the 375 rum brass really easy.

If you want more info on the Texan shoot me a pm.

Jayson

 

[CA48]

I'm not sure how to grab individual quotes as you have here so I'll grab the whole thing.

Thank you for this information and very happy to hear about the Rem brass, I have a bit. The reason I wanted to know about Norma vs Bertram is the cost, I Believe that you can get Norma brass for two dollars each and Burtram brass for three dollars each?

I'm crunching 109grns of RL33 into the case, before I started using HBN I was able to get the same speed and stats with 106.5grns.

Tom

With the brass, Betram will be cheaper in the long run because you will get way more firings out of the Bertram brass, same situation with the Lapua brass, higher quality components will give you more consistency and save you money in the long run.

I don't have my notes handy but it took me 112-113 grs of RL 33 to produce 3050fps. That's with a .040 jump and a COAL of 4.120", Bertram brass. My improved design has a slight amount of body taper taken out and a 40 degree shoulder probably around 3.5 grains over the standard edge case capicity.

So I have heard remarks before that the 300 grain bullet weight is a lot of force on the barrel as it spins down the barrel. In the normal Sendero contour people have stated they think or say they are experienced barrel whip and had to drop down to a 250 grain bullet. If not wanting to experience this what are some of the contours that might resolve this type of effect. I really don't know how much this takes place since it looks like some of the 338 Edge's have the Sendero contour design and shoot 300 grain pills very well. Also what powder are you running and at what charge weight in the Texan. If 3100 is achievable then that would really be awesome or 3000 would even be awesome as well. That would really be something to grow into as my skills improve.
Also its still in the air about the caliber...I am still leaning more toward the 338 cal just because when I need bullets I can get them pretty easy. I was leaning a little more toward the 338 Lapua AI due to always being able to find brass at my local stores. On the other hand I did run across 100 375 RUM cases and I pretty sure they are still at the store right now. So I think in a previous post different location on the form the 375 cases were getting necked down to the 338. That might be something to buy now if I was to go with the Texan and if I don't use them I can sail them.

I have a heavy sendaro contour. It finishes at .890 vs .830, 30in bbl, and I have seen no ill effects at long range. It will shoot around half inch at 100 yards and hold half inch 3 shot groups out to 300 yards. I think with some load tweaking I could better my groups at short range but there is no point since its shoots so well at long range and shorter distances are irrelevant with this cartridge. I have never had a problem finding REM RUM brass, but if you do the Texan you can use 300 rum brass just as easily, it just adds one more step of necking up to .358. Then you can partially neck it down to create the false shoulder for fire forming.

 

[boscodog]

CA48
(With the brass, Betram will be cheaper in the long run because you will get way more firings out of the Bertram brass, same situation with the Lapua brass, higher quality components will give you more consistency and save you money in the long run.)

This makes sense, I thought of it after I wrote the post.

(I don't have my notes handy but it took me 112-113 grs of RL 33 to produce 3050fps. That's with a .040 jump and a COAL of 4.120", Bertram brass. My improved design has a slight amount of body taper taken out and a 40 degree shoulder probably around 3.5 grains over the standard edge case capacity)

I hunt with my gun so it's a repeater, I'm at 3.830 COAL which puts me just off the lands, not sure what the measurement would be to the lands.

Tom