which side arm?
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ATH
Well-Known Member
Well, comparing a .22 to a .357 Magnum is a bit of silly logic strawman, is it not? Could you tell me with a straight face that a .357 is more similar to a .22 than a .44?
You do realize that the .454 Casull is fairly new on the scene, and plenty of bear attacks were stopped before it was invented?
I think it stands to reason that any rifle is better than any handgun...and, consequently, the largest handgun you can control is better than anything smaller. I would rather have a .357 Magnum than an empty hand because the .454 I had on hand was too heavy or intimidating. Of course I'd rather have a 338 Magnum than a .454.
I was relating a real-life example....which, to me, is worth a lot more than rambling internet opinions.
That said, I chose a 41 Magnum as the smallest I was comfortable with.
Speedo
Well-Known Member
It wasn't an internet tale, it was a real life tale and that doesn't make a 22 or a 357 a good choice for bear protection.
You do realize that plenty of bear attacks were stopped before firearms were invented.
If a 41 Magnum is the smallest you were comfortable with, what is the largest you were comfortable with?
Gus
ATH
Well-Known Member
Well, you can't put the performance of a .22 and a .357 Magnum in the same ballpark statement and expect to be taken seriously. This is why I referred to your post as a rambling internet opinion not to be taken seriously. Since I doubt anyone here has done a massive test of penetration and terminal performance on grizzly bears, anyone who is so authoritatively dismissive of a caliber which many do use....and of anyone's opinion on the matter...is immediately suspect.
The problem with uber-boomer 454, 460 and 500 handguns..besides weight...is that people tend to just not shoot them that much. The people I know who own 454s -- for bear protection -- don't put more than a couple cylinders of real 454 ammo through them per year, if that. I would rather be defending my life with a smaller magnum handgun that I put hundreds of rounds a year through, and knew I could hit with, than with a uber-magnum that was rarely shot with full-power loads, if at all.
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Speedo
Well-Known Member
ATH
Well-Known Member
Ever shoot a grizzly with a .357 Magnum?
jhibbard24
Well-Known Member
i bowhunt idaho and occasionally carry my GLOCK 23 .40 sw with only about 6-7 rnds of 180 gold dots. I also have a crimson trace laser grip that is sighted in very well at 40 yds. I don't see much reason for packing 13 + rnds, if something comes out and you get a shot or two or three it should be dead or gone. If i was going for more than a day hunt i might pack 1 full mag. The laser grip is a good thing for me:
1- i cannot shoot an auto as accurately as a revolver and it gives me a fast target acquistion.
2- I am more worried about animals in the woods that can eat me when I can't see them; being that at night when i'm making my way back outta the woods.
Bugling elk in september archery season in Idaho at a late, dark dusk as I am making my way back across a ridge towards where i parked my wheeler and happened to bugle up some furry friends. WOLVES! had three of the bastards walk out in front of me looking for that bugling bull. it was just enough light that i could make out there shapes and the shades of the hides. Closest one at about 25 yds then about 35 and 40. first reaction was to pick my jaw up off the ground, drop my bow and draw my glock. the nice fluffy gray coat of the wolf at 25 yds turned bright red from the laser (even though i have nite sights i wouldn't want to waste the seconds of trying to line up three dots on a target that i could hardly see) Anyhow... I got off three rounds in the SOB and they all took off in the timber. As i strapped my bow to my pack and got to walking out with pistol and flashlight in hand those freaking wolves starting howling behind me all the way back to my wheeler. that'll get your blood pumping.
1- i cannot shoot an auto as accurately as a revolver and it gives me a fast target acquistion.
2- I am more worried about animals in the woods that can eat me when I can't see them; being that at night when i'm making my way back outta the woods.
Bugling elk in september archery season in Idaho at a late, dark dusk as I am making my way back across a ridge towards where i parked my wheeler and happened to bugle up some furry friends. WOLVES! had three of the bastards walk out in front of me looking for that bugling bull. it was just enough light that i could make out there shapes and the shades of the hides. Closest one at about 25 yds then about 35 and 40. first reaction was to pick my jaw up off the ground, drop my bow and draw my glock. the nice fluffy gray coat of the wolf at 25 yds turned bright red from the laser (even though i have nite sights i wouldn't want to waste the seconds of trying to line up three dots on a target that i could hardly see) Anyhow... I got off three rounds in the SOB and they all took off in the timber. As i strapped my bow to my pack and got to walking out with pistol and flashlight in hand those freaking wolves starting howling behind me all the way back to my wheeler. that'll get your blood pumping.
Speedo
Well-Known Member
No I haven't, nor would I recommend that anyone else try it. Can it be done, yes it can. Is it a good choice, not in my opinion.
I've killed several grizzlies and been around even more that were killed. I've had to chase wounded grizzlies into alders that were wounded by people who shouldn't have shot the bears with the rifles that they were using and I've never been around anyone that shot a bear with something as inadequate as a .357 Magnum.
When I'm hunting bears or in an area where bear encounters are likely to occur at close range I've got a Model 700 .375 H&H. If I'm packing meat or doing anything where I don't have a rifle with me I carry the aforementioned ,454 that I do shoot frequently and I'm usually not alone in those situations.
The probability of being charged by a bear is very low, hunters, because of the nature of what we do and how we go about it increase the probability. If you are charged by a griz there is a fairly high probability that it will be a bluff charge or maybe even a couple of bluff charges without any contact being made. If you do get charged by a bear and shoot but don't immobilize it there is a good chance that it will run off, there is however a chance that you will encounter a bear that decides that you are going to pay for the pain that you just caused him and the only way you are going to stop him is to break bone. A shot that might end up being fatal but doesn't stop him immediately could cost you very dearly. A bullet to the brain could stop him but you can try that one, not me. Breaking a charging bear down with a .357, good luck.
Gus
ATH
Well-Known Member
IMHO a 454 Casull is still inadequate. What studies there are indicate you are still better off with a high capacity can of bear spray.
One need only go back to the first page of this thread to see the size and weight issues people have with 454s. A gun is of no use to you if you don't have it on you when you need it. The reason I carry a 41 is that it is a gun I can have on me AT ALL TIMES. I get the same frame size as a .357 with a more powerful round. I can't match a 44 with 300gr bullets but can compete with 250gr bullets.
Context is also important. Perhaps in Alaska you encounter more bears. The area I hunt is considered to have good bear density for the lower-48....in 3 years there I have seen nothing but tracks. Backpack hunting is hard, it becomes easy to be complacent and leave behind a brick of a handgun but not a lighter one. Considering both are really inadequate, I'll take the one that is acceptable in power but that I will be sure to always have.
As I said, I don't carry a .357. But they have certainly worked for some, so I see no need to belittle those that choose them. I've seen some who scoff at anyone silly enough to waste time carrying ANY handgun, when NONE will reliably stop a charging grizzly.
T3-OleMan
Well-Known Member
Shoulder holster is what I carried when ELK hunting in CO back in my bow days 1994<2000 with 22 Glock (.40S&W) and 16 rounds of Black Talon -NO 6-Black Talon -NO 6-Black Talon -NO 6- etc. Never had to use it but couple times at dark the puddy cats would talk back to the Bears and I would pray!!!! Prayers worked. Glad you picked your 1st choice but you may get too old to pack that much steel up the MT. Then go with a plastic gun to save the wt. like I did. Today 6.44lb T3 SS Lite 338WM with a 380 (6 shot) backup to draw search party if needed.....LOL...It's my knife fight gun!
High Country
Well-Known Member
I really don't go to far in Alaska without my S&W 629 Mt Gun in .44... Sometimes I'll go with an M&P in .40, but lean very heavy on the .44, especially when stepping out of town... If only the M&P came in 10mm... : )
These holsters are simple and work well for hiking, fishing, and the like. I'm new to Bow Hunting so I need to practice shooting the bow some with it on to recommend it for that...
Alaska Sportsman Holsters
You won't be John Wayne with your quick draw, but if you practice you can get a pistol out relatively quick.
For what it is worth I can wear it well with a pack as well.
These holsters are simple and work well for hiking, fishing, and the like. I'm new to Bow Hunting so I need to practice shooting the bow some with it on to recommend it for that...
Alaska Sportsman Holsters
You won't be John Wayne with your quick draw, but if you practice you can get a pistol out relatively quick.
For what it is worth I can wear it well with a pack as well.
Must be nice to only have to worry about animals of the 4 legged kind. I live and work within 50 miles of the Mexico border. Down here we have the 2 legged also. And their firearms usually shoot way farther then the handguns we are allowed to carry for self defence while archery hunting. Per AZ. regs you can now carry, but the handgun has to be short barreled and without hunting type sights. In this country I would much prefer to have to deal with Grizzlies, Should be able to spot them miles away and avoid. 
houndsnmules
Member
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- Apr 17, 2011
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41 magnum and above as long as you can shoot it well. I have read on other sights some people say a 40 S&W with 16 rounds. Don't they relize how fast bears can move. Plus if you have to fire 16 times, that 16 times a malfunction can happen and the bear will be that much closer to you
glockman55
Well-Known Member
I carry my Sig. P 238, .380, not legal here in Mich. to carry a gun during Archery Season unless you possess a CPL, so you can't use it for finishing off your Deer, and we don't have too many dangerous animals where I hunt, other than unstable people,Thats why I carry the smaller cal. If I had Bears, big Cats, etc. to worry about, I would carry my .45 or .44 mag..
