Which long range target rifle to buy

[gohring3006]

I'll have to look at the ballistics on this and the recoil numbers. But to my mind, I always thought that if I wanted to shoot 3006 speeds, I'd just download the 300. But I would much prefer a smaller caliber, lighter bullet in this case. The only reason I consider the 308 is because of the rifle it comes in.

Otherwise, it would not cross my mind. Just going cartridge vs cartridge, for my purposes in this specific rifle, I'd think the 7 mag would be the better choice over the 3006 or the 308.

But I'll have to run the recoil numbers on that, and, of course, I'd need different components, but I can live with that.

Yea. This sounds reasonable, the 7 mag has more recoil but not much. I think my next rifle will be a .280 or .284 win.

 

[catorres1]

Just fyi, a 12 twist barrel can handle up to a 200gr bullet depending on what you pick. The VLD style won't in a twelve above 190. But on rare occasions they will work okay for 210 berger. Not ideal. My 12 twist handles the 200 SGK, and the hornady 208 A-max. Again it's on the edge of stability, but works.

Thanks for this, I was wondering what weights the 12 twist would take. I got Berger's numbers, but don't know where to look for other manufacturers.

I noted some of the new Weatherby TR's come with a 10 twist. Sure wish the one I was looking at came with that twist. It would probably help quite a bit.

Any idea on where to get that info for Nosler? Their 190 LRAB has a great BC that would probably help the 308 compete well with the others.

 

[catorres1]

Forgot to mention which rifle I choose. The savage all the way. Built a couple savages w/o problem. B&C stocks are the best bang for the buck.

Which B&C stock are you using?

 

[catorres1]

Yea. This sounds reasonable, the 7 mag has more recoil but not much. I think my next rifle will be a .280 or .284 win.

Yeah, I just re-ran my numbers and realized I screwed up the first time. The recoil on the 7 mag 168 is a bit higher than I thought, I put in the wrong number for powder grains. Still, it's pretty close to the 308. But I think I have a handle on it now., and found the 150 LRAB in a 7mm is pretty great..

Here is what the recoil weight, speed, and then 1k 10mph drift numbers look like for various combos, all assuming a 10lb rifle, except for the 300, which assumes an 8.5 lb rifle. The numbers for the 7 mag are based on minimum book loads, mainly from Nosler:

7 mag 150 accubond
13.2
9.24
Drift 63.03

7 mag 168
15
9.8
Drift 63.50

308 168 berger
13.5
9.3
Drift 77.13

308 185 Berger
15.5
10
Drift 76.2

6.5 140 berger
11.2
8.5
Drift 62.23

3006 200 berger
19.97
11.3
Drift 66.44

300 Win mag 185 Berger
29.1
14.8
Drift 61.51

I tried to pick loads that got as close as possible for drift. The only ones that would do that on a 308 were 200 bergers (although I don't have the info for Amax's, SMK's or others, so maybe there are options there). The problem is, Berger says they won't work in a 12 twist. I'm going to see if there are some high bc 200 grainers that might change the picture, that will work in a 12 twist.

Stupid weatherby.....shoulda put a 10 twist!

Anyway, you'll note that 7mm 150 LRAB load is looking pretty good, second only to the....yeah...260/6.5...essentially identical in recoil to the 168 308.

 

[catorres1]

Looks like a 190 LRAB, if it will stablize in a 12 twist, does pretty well drift wise. 66.31 inches. Recoil goes up to 185 berger levels, 15.5 lbs at 10 fps.

That looks pretty okay, but that is the only bullet I am aware of that gets it done like that. And depending on one bullet to get a rifle to do what you want....well, tried that this year..with two choices, could not get it done.

Anyway, I think the question remains the same. Is it unimportant if your primary rifle as 61 inches in wind drift, but your practice rifle has 77? Or is it important that they be very close?

 

[liltank]

Which B&C stock are you using?

The B&C Medalist A2. It is a great stock. The only thing I did but didn't have to is cleaned up any resin that was on the aluminum bedding block. The feel good and carry well. The A5 is my next purchase if I get a chance too.

 

[liltank]

Looks like a 190 LRAB, if it will stablize in a 12 twist, does pretty well drift wise.

The 190 should be fine in the 12tw. Even berger's 190 hunting VLD will work in my rifle. Calls for a 12tw or faster.

 

[gohring3006]

Sierra list the BC of the 200 smk at .565 but I think I read Litz found it to be .580 I have found at 2600 fps that its pretty close to Litz's findings.

 

[liltank]

.580 is pretty darn good. That is especially good news since I was able to push it to 2655 using CFE.

 

[catorres1]

.580 is pretty darn good. That is especially good news since I was able to push it to 2655 using CFE.

That really makes me question the BC's given by Nosler for the LRAB. They claim 640 for their 190 LRAB. Berger's is much lower, as is everyone else's. I suspect there is some blue sky in those numbers, which again, would bring the 308 back into a 70's for drift, rather than breaking into the 60s.

 

[gohring3006]

Brian came up with .569 for the 190 nosler in a 10 twist..

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Man... If you could find a good rifle with a 1in10 twist... Then you'd be able to throw the berger hybrid 215s downrange, with a BC of .696... Or even the 230s with a .719. I haven't seen any mention of a muzzle brake, but I have seen you comment on recoil. Is a brake something you couldn't or wouldn't use? I find that for my 300 wm... With 168 vlds, it shoots quite gently at speeds in excess of 3000 fps with a brake... Lighter recoil than my 308. Now on the other hand... When I push the 215s at speeds from 2975 to 3017, even with the brake, I was left with bruises shooting from an 8.5lb setup.

Have you considered a sendero or laredo... For your heavy rig?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Yeah, I just re-ran my numbers and realized I screwed up the first time. The recoil on the 7 mag 168 is a bit higher than I thought, I put in the wrong number for powder grains. Still, it's pretty close to the 308. But I think I have a handle on it now., and found the 150 LRAB in a 7mm is pretty great..

Here is what the recoil weight, speed, and then 1k 10mph drift numbers look like for various combos, all assuming a 10lb rifle, except for the 300, which assumes an 8.5 lb rifle. The numbers for the 7 mag are based on minimum book loads, mainly from Nosler:

7 mag 150 accubond
13.2
9.24
Drift 63.03

7 mag 168
15
9.8
Drift 63.50

308 168 berger
13.5
9.3
Drift 77.13

308 185 Berger
15.5
10
Drift 76.2

6.5 140 berger
11.2
8.5
Drift 62.23

3006 200 berger
19.97
11.3
Drift 66.44

300 Win mag 185 Berger
29.1
14.8
Drift 61.51

I tried to pick loads that got as close as possible for drift. The only ones that would do that on a 308 were 200 bergers (although I don't have the info for Amax's, SMK's or others, so maybe there are options there). The problem is, Berger says they won't work in a 12 twist. I'm going to see if there are some high bc 200 grainers that might change the picture, that will work in a 12 twist.

Stupid weatherby.....shoulda put a 10 twist!

Anyway, you'll note that 7mm 150 LRAB load is looking pretty good, second only to the....yeah...260/6.5...essentially identical in recoil to the 168 308.

Don't sell the 7RM short by using lightweight bullets. Atleast a 168 Berger. Or a Berger 180, if you got a twist that can stabilize it.

 

[gohring3006]

Don't sell the 7RM short by using lightweight bullets. Atleast a 168 Berger. Or a Berger 180, if you got a twist that can stabilize it.

I agree. To each his own but when I read he was considering a 150 in a 7 mag he won't realize the old 7's full potential..