So after various posts, I came to the conclusion of what I wanted, based on my personal needs, but also found that it does not exist, unless I go a custom route, which I cannot afford right now.
The rifle's purpose is for up to 1k shooting at targets and steel. It will be paired with a light 300 WM that's main purpose is my hunting rifle (it replaces a light 375, so recoil is not really an issue here as much for hunting etc.). As the 300 has to be carried, it needs to be light (7lb rifle, 8.5 with scope etc.), so the barrel will, I believe, be too light for extended shooting sessions (as in a class), and recoil will be tiresome over 2 days of shooting or whatever.
So I am going to have a second rifle for training and targets. Heavy barrel, higher weight, lower recoil. The ideal rifle would be a copy of the hunting rifle, that is a Vanguard in a B&C stock. Same trigger etc. I'd choose 6.5 creedmore or 260 rem, 26" barrel. But that can only happen with a custom job, and I can't afford that at the moment, and would prefer to have something moderate in general for the purpose. BTW, I like Vanguards because that style of stock fits me properly, others shapes, not as much.
So I have 3 basic options, and I would like the opinion of some long range shooters of which to pursue within these parameters. Remember, the stock, ideally, would be identical to the 300, or close if that is not possible. In addition, caliber is very important here because it defines what's available. I would like one, if possible, that closely mimics the 300 in terms of wind drift. Drop, not so much, but wind is important. And I do reload all my ammo, so factory specs are not important.
Choice1.
6.5 Savage LRH or Predator Hunter Max1
Good: Gets me the caliber I ideally want
Bad: Don't like the stock, and it's very different configuration is in opposition to having a somewhat matched set.
Cost is higher than the other two options out of the box.
No stock I really like exists for these rifles, except for maybe a McMillan or Manners, which cost too much for me. And even these are not 'ideal'.
6.5/260, though probably the best choice ballistically, are the hardest of the three to get components for.
Choice 2
Remington Long Range Hunter in 7mag
Good: Good price, equal to option 3, but no changes ever necessary (if it shoots and I accept the stock as is)
Stock is the B&C M42. While not the same as the Vanguard, it at least has the raised comb that I need and is quality B&C. Technically, I could buy the exact B&C stock as on the 300 for another 250 if I wanted. But that would jack the price up a bit.
I can load down and get near 308 levels of recoil, but still match the drift on the 300 with the right bullets.
A 168 going 2740 only uses about 45 grains of 4064, which is what a 308 uses to hit about the same speed with a 165. Recoil difference in a 10lb rifle is 14.1 vs 13.5 (advantage 308). But .6 lbs, I will not notice.
Aftermarket support is unrivaled, though I am not planning to change stuff. Want to configure, and then forget it and spend my money shooting.
Bad: I am not confident in Remington's 'out of box' accuaracy, and I don't want to have to spend to get it to under MOA. I need it serviceable from the box.
Different trigger to the Vanguard
Stock is not identical...the missing cheek piece, the drop etc. is different. Good, but different.
7mag is more powerful than I wanted, and a lot more like the 300 than I had in mind. It does not come in 260, and 25-06 does not meet my needs due to BC of 25 caliber bullets.
The Remingtion uses a 9.25 twist, so I don't know if I wanted to use longer bullets if they will stabilize above, say, 168 or 170.
Choice 3
Weatherby Vanguard Varmint Range Certified in 308
Good: Other than the wide forearm (which is good in this case) this stock is identical to the one on the 300, pretty much exactly what I had in mind. If this rifle was in 6.5/260, this is what I want.
Trigger is identical
308 components are relatively cheap and easy to find.
Bullets can be shared with the 300
Price I found on it is the lowest of all
Range Certified by Weatherby and guaranteed. I will know from the box it shoots under 1 MOA (and likely .75 to .5), have the target, and know what load was used to do this.
Bad: Mainly, just the barrel....It does not come in 260/6.5, it's a 308, and a 12 twist at that. So I assume I would be limited to 168's or so. Only 22" as well.
So that means wind drift wise, it just cannot keep up with the others at 1k.
I also have some opportunity to shoot out to 1.2k in a class...I don't think this one will be up to it, so I would have to limit, I assume.
If I want it in a 6.5 or even a 7-08, I have to rebarrel, which looks like a $600 project. That's well over what I had intended to spend. However, I could shoot it as is for now, and then rebarrel later when I have more money. But that could be a LONG time, and in the meantime, I'd be dealing with two different wind drift behaviors, and maybe finding shooting a 308 at 1k frustrating? I don't know, I don't have the experience yet. That's what the classes are for.
So easiest, but least sure is the Remington in 7mm. If it shoots out of the box, I can just make some light loads and I'm done.
The cheapest way to get into a 260 is with the Savage. But it's not guaranteed either, and the stock I really don't like. It is the most expensive out of the box,
The Vanguard is perfect in fit, etc., but the cartridge is the weakest choice of all three to my mind...ballistically, it least matches the 300. While it starts out as the cheapest and, accuracy wise, surest option, to get it to shoot like the 300 ballistically would ultimately make it the most expensive. So to put it to the experts...the question is 308...is it good enough? How much in training is it important to ensure both rifles share very similar drift characteristics etc.?
Thanks!
The rifle's purpose is for up to 1k shooting at targets and steel. It will be paired with a light 300 WM that's main purpose is my hunting rifle (it replaces a light 375, so recoil is not really an issue here as much for hunting etc.). As the 300 has to be carried, it needs to be light (7lb rifle, 8.5 with scope etc.), so the barrel will, I believe, be too light for extended shooting sessions (as in a class), and recoil will be tiresome over 2 days of shooting or whatever.
So I am going to have a second rifle for training and targets. Heavy barrel, higher weight, lower recoil. The ideal rifle would be a copy of the hunting rifle, that is a Vanguard in a B&C stock. Same trigger etc. I'd choose 6.5 creedmore or 260 rem, 26" barrel. But that can only happen with a custom job, and I can't afford that at the moment, and would prefer to have something moderate in general for the purpose. BTW, I like Vanguards because that style of stock fits me properly, others shapes, not as much.
So I have 3 basic options, and I would like the opinion of some long range shooters of which to pursue within these parameters. Remember, the stock, ideally, would be identical to the 300, or close if that is not possible. In addition, caliber is very important here because it defines what's available. I would like one, if possible, that closely mimics the 300 in terms of wind drift. Drop, not so much, but wind is important. And I do reload all my ammo, so factory specs are not important.
Choice1.
6.5 Savage LRH or Predator Hunter Max1
Good: Gets me the caliber I ideally want
Bad: Don't like the stock, and it's very different configuration is in opposition to having a somewhat matched set.
Cost is higher than the other two options out of the box.
No stock I really like exists for these rifles, except for maybe a McMillan or Manners, which cost too much for me. And even these are not 'ideal'.
6.5/260, though probably the best choice ballistically, are the hardest of the three to get components for.
Choice 2
Remington Long Range Hunter in 7mag
Good: Good price, equal to option 3, but no changes ever necessary (if it shoots and I accept the stock as is)
Stock is the B&C M42. While not the same as the Vanguard, it at least has the raised comb that I need and is quality B&C. Technically, I could buy the exact B&C stock as on the 300 for another 250 if I wanted. But that would jack the price up a bit.
I can load down and get near 308 levels of recoil, but still match the drift on the 300 with the right bullets.
A 168 going 2740 only uses about 45 grains of 4064, which is what a 308 uses to hit about the same speed with a 165. Recoil difference in a 10lb rifle is 14.1 vs 13.5 (advantage 308). But .6 lbs, I will not notice.
Aftermarket support is unrivaled, though I am not planning to change stuff. Want to configure, and then forget it and spend my money shooting.
Bad: I am not confident in Remington's 'out of box' accuaracy, and I don't want to have to spend to get it to under MOA. I need it serviceable from the box.
Different trigger to the Vanguard
Stock is not identical...the missing cheek piece, the drop etc. is different. Good, but different.
7mag is more powerful than I wanted, and a lot more like the 300 than I had in mind. It does not come in 260, and 25-06 does not meet my needs due to BC of 25 caliber bullets.
The Remingtion uses a 9.25 twist, so I don't know if I wanted to use longer bullets if they will stabilize above, say, 168 or 170.
Choice 3
Weatherby Vanguard Varmint Range Certified in 308
Good: Other than the wide forearm (which is good in this case) this stock is identical to the one on the 300, pretty much exactly what I had in mind. If this rifle was in 6.5/260, this is what I want.
Trigger is identical
308 components are relatively cheap and easy to find.
Bullets can be shared with the 300
Price I found on it is the lowest of all
Range Certified by Weatherby and guaranteed. I will know from the box it shoots under 1 MOA (and likely .75 to .5), have the target, and know what load was used to do this.
Bad: Mainly, just the barrel....It does not come in 260/6.5, it's a 308, and a 12 twist at that. So I assume I would be limited to 168's or so. Only 22" as well.
So that means wind drift wise, it just cannot keep up with the others at 1k.
I also have some opportunity to shoot out to 1.2k in a class...I don't think this one will be up to it, so I would have to limit, I assume.
If I want it in a 6.5 or even a 7-08, I have to rebarrel, which looks like a $600 project. That's well over what I had intended to spend. However, I could shoot it as is for now, and then rebarrel later when I have more money. But that could be a LONG time, and in the meantime, I'd be dealing with two different wind drift behaviors, and maybe finding shooting a 308 at 1k frustrating? I don't know, I don't have the experience yet. That's what the classes are for.
So easiest, but least sure is the Remington in 7mm. If it shoots out of the box, I can just make some light loads and I'm done.
The cheapest way to get into a 260 is with the Savage. But it's not guaranteed either, and the stock I really don't like. It is the most expensive out of the box,
The Vanguard is perfect in fit, etc., but the cartridge is the weakest choice of all three to my mind...ballistically, it least matches the 300. While it starts out as the cheapest and, accuracy wise, surest option, to get it to shoot like the 300 ballistically would ultimately make it the most expensive. So to put it to the experts...the question is 308...is it good enough? How much in training is it important to ensure both rifles share very similar drift characteristics etc.?
Thanks!
