What is the verdict on this barrel?

[baldhunter]

http://www.davidtubb.com/catalog/view/theme/davidtubb/pdf/product_information/tms.pdf

I used five of the throat maintenance bullets on a couple of Ruger #1's.They were both shooting about 1 1/2".After shooting the bullets they both shot about 1/2-3/4" afterwards.I have used the final finish bullets on several rifles with great improvements.The only rifle that I saw a big difference in velocity was my 300WSM,but I think this may actually be an improvement.I've always had issues with this rifle and pressure spikes because it had no freebore.The lands start at the end of the chamber and I had to use 180gr data for 165gr loads.After shooting the twenty bullets my velocity dropped 100fps on my loads so I think now I can load closer to the books.I shot all fifty bullets through this rifle and shot this group at 200yds.

This is from another rifle I used 5 bullets from the kit on 1&2 then 10 on 3-5.Scope adjustment was done on 4.This was at a 100yds

 

[milo-2]

Thanks! Yea it actually does make sense to increasing throat life, or maybe a better way to put it is minimizing the damage done.
I would still be a little apprehensive, though with a scope maybe I can take it slow and easy and see if Im gaining on it, or doing more harm than good. This could also be my experimental "practice" barrel too. Too many times Ive gotta screw something up to learn anything, and begin doing things in a way that might be of benefit. Many things Ive learned the hard way. Some came at much expense when first learning what not to do.

I have never used steel wool, but with JB, you are running off of feel on your cleaning rod, not visible checks. If you somehow make that area actually look decent, you may be adding 2 gr of powder to make up for the pressure dump.

 

[Tidesloe]

Same goes for a good majority of us on here about learning the hard way. I think we've all had some of that.

Yea, and in some cases if it werent the hard way, you didnt actually "learn"

 

[wonderman4]

Just an adder to my earlier post that I forgot to mention: I wouldn't worry about the ammunition being being the cause of the pressure signs. I have had ammo MUCH older than 2-3 years old and never caused any problems.

Just to note that Uncle Sam had age limits of 20 years on stored ammo before they dispose of it, and I have shot ammo 10-20 years beyond that.

So, no merit in the ammo being old if stored properly.

 

[bigngreen]

Yes, these obviously arent your "everyday shooters".
Would you mind sharing a little detail on "throat maintenance"?
I have another question for you bigngreen.
Im about to embark, and nearly ready to begin on a journey involving a cartridge that I know you have been involved in from the start of development and testing. Do you mind if I come to you with some questions on it, once I begin? Ill also be in touch with the creator, and developer on it.
Thanks!!

I use a patch with a couple drops of KG-1 carbon remover and then add some KG-2 bore polish, I use a short pistol cleaning brush and work it in the first couple inches just a few strokes then put the long rod on and push it out, I do this a couple times then just use the carbon remover to clear out the bore then a dry patch with acetone followed up with a light Kroil patch. I've never had a carbon ring, ever. This has kept the lizard skin at bay BUT it does essentially wear the bore but that's a trade of I'm willing to take, I'd rather wear the rifling out and maintain excellent performance than have it go to this place.

If you have any other questions on the other build just hit me up, don't mind!

 

[Tidesloe]

I use a patch with a couple drops of KG-1 carbon remover and then add some KG-2 bore polish, I use a short pistol cleaning brush and work it in the first couple inches just a few strokes then put the long rod on and push it out, I do this a couple times then just use the carbon remover to clear out the bore then a dry patch with acetone followed up with a light Kroil patch. I've never had a carbon ring, ever. This has kept the lizard skin at bay BUT it does essentially wear the bore but that's a trade of I'm willing to take, I'd rather wear the rifling out and maintain excellent performance than have it go to this place.

If you have any other questions on the other build just hit me up, don't mind!

Thanks for the detail. I sippose uou gotta balance out the trade-offs. Doing nothing sure didnt work!!!
Thanks, on the other build. Ill be very limited in bothering you, or anyone else on it. Its a wildcat, and Ive got no experience with that realm. Pretty sure I'll be fine for the most part, but may just need a little bump in the right direction at times. Itll be a learning experience for sure.

 

[Tidesloe]

http://www.davidtubb.com/catalog/view/theme/davidtubb/pdf/product_information/tms.pdf

I used five of the throat maintenance bullets on a couple of Ruger #1's.They were both shooting about 1 1/2".After shooting the bullets they both shot about 1/2-3/4" afterwards.I have used the final finish bullets on several rifles with great improvements.The only rifle that I saw a big difference in velocity was my 300WSM,but I think this may actually be an improvement.I've always had issues with this rifle and pressure spikes because it had no freebore.The lands start at the end of the chamber and I had to use 180gr data for 165gr loads.After shooting the twenty bullets my velocity dropped 100fps on my loads so I think now I can load closer to the books.I shot all fifty bullets through this rifle and shot this group at 200yds.View attachment 179199View attachment 179200This is from another rifle I used 5 bullets from the kit on 1&2 then 10 on 3-5.Scope adjustment was done on 4.This was at a 100ydsView attachment 179200

Sure looks like it helped, considerably

 

[Tensilon]

"I have never used steel wool, but with JB, you are running off of feel on your cleaning rod, not visible checks. If you somehow make that area actually look decent, you may be adding 2 gr of powder to make up for the pressure dump."

Just a note.... the 3M pads I use are maroon Scotch Brite pads very fine. They also have a gray pad that is ultra fine. I pull them apart i.e. split them into half thickness and wrap them around a worn out brush. They are not steel wool. Also, in regard to the Final Finish system... you are polishing the whole barrel, not just the throat...
Tens

 

[DJ Fergus]

All the pictures shown in this thread just show normal wear & tear for an over bore cartridge. You gotta expect it. I would never use an abrasive such as JB or any other abrasive. All you will do is ruin what barrel you have left. The cracked areas are flame hardened and much harder than the rest of the bore, so an abrasive will only wear the softer steel down, which you don't wanna do.

As another poster mentioned, on rifles such as these, the barrels are considered consumable. Use it up, throw it away, and get another one......then the cycle starts all over.

I honestly believe you are correct about the fire cracking being expected as normal wear & tear for that sized cartridge. Many many moons ago I used some flitz on a barrel by reccomendation of several people on one of the first rifle forums online. I gained about an extra 3/4 moa in group size after doing that. I realized years later what I had physically done to that barrel and it wasn't an improvement. I've never used JB bore paste or fire lapping rounds. While I won't argue that some people saw improvements cause I believe they might have, but I am very cautious about those methods. I haven't had to resort to that yet. Probably would be a last resort for me if my accuracy was poor and couldn't be resolved by thoroughly cleaning with non-abrasive methods or load tuning. It would be the last thing I might try if my next step was to rebarrel, there would be nothing to lose at that point.

 

[baldhunter]

This is what my 7STW looks like.I haven't done anything to this rifle except clean it.I have no idea how many rounds it has through it because I bought it used.I'm seeing damage from the bore all the way down to 7" down the barrel.It starts improving greatly after 8" and all the way to the muzzle.The amazing thing it will still shoot 1/2".I guess the damage is the price you pay burning around 80grs of powder down a .284 tube.

 

[DJ Fergus]

"I have never used steel wool, but with JB, you are running off of feel on your cleaning rod, not visible checks. If you somehow make that area actually look decent, you may be adding 2 gr of powder to make up for the pressure dump."

Just a note.... the 3M pads I use are maroon Scotch Brite pads very fine. They also have a gray pad that is ultra fine. I pull them apart i.e. split them into half thickness and wrap them around a worn out brush. They are not steel wool. Also, in regard to the Final Finish system... you are polishing the whole barrel, not just the throat...
Tens

3m sends me my paycheck. They make the best of the best. The maroon pads are one step more aggressive in abrasion from the green. The green will not remove metal. The maroon bearly will remove metal if using with a high speed tool. I don't think a person would ever be able to remove any metal with the maroon pads & non powered tools at hand speed, especially if it's delaminating. Which should work out about perfect as you stated for how you use it. I know I didn't have to tell you that cause obviously you already know this pretty well or you wouldn't have figured out what you are doing with it so well. Mainly just posted for the benefit of other readers who might come across this thread.

 

[Tidesloe]

I really appreciate all the input, and advice. Theres a lot of knowledge and experience here, and it helps guys like myself who think we know, but really dont. Thanks!!
This rifle is not my only one. I have a handful of others, that I spend more time with that wouldnt be doing near the damage this beast has done. Im not convinced that "its done" especially given that it still shoots pretty well, but is dropping off. I know now much more what to watch for and different things to do that can offset- or minimize the damage. I think I can squeeze a little more life out of it.
When the time comes to move on and rebarrel, Im not necessarily opposed to doing STW again, as I think now Im a bit better equipped to extend the life of it via maintenance, and load development, staying on top of it, and watching it closely. I know where to find the "answers"!!!
When that time comes, Im left with a long action msgnum bolt face. What to rebarrel to, that might give a little more life? Ive wanted to get away from belted mags, but to my knowledge that may be even worse.
Ive done the same to a 300 RUM. Never scoped it, never knew for sure but finally gave up on that thing and parted it out. I easily shot twice as many rounds through it, but I finally got tired of battling it.
Not many possibilities out there other than belted, another belted throat roaster, or short mag in a long action.
Anyway, decisions there and like I said Im not opposed to another STW roaster, as Im pretty well invested in that cartridge.
Thanks again guys!!

 

[Tidesloe]

I use a patch with a couple drops of KG-1 carbon remover and then add some KG-2 bore polish, I use a short pistol cleaning brush and work it in the first couple inches just a few strokes then put the long rod on and push it out, I do this a couple times then just use the carbon remover to clear out the bore then a dry patch with acetone followed up with a light Kroil patch. I've never had a carbon ring, ever. This has kept the lizard skin at bay BUT it does essentially wear the bore but that's a trade of I'm willing to take, I'd rather wear the rifling out and maintain excellent performance than have it go to this place.

If you have any other questions on the other build just hit me up, don't mind!

Will Kroil dissolve carbon? The reason I ask is Ive never been able to get much carbon out of it. Just after shooting, I get some, its gone pretty quick, and I run a kroil soaked patch through, and 1loose fitting dry before putting it away. I always thought running a not very tight fitting patch after the kroil left behind a light layer of it. Then I push a tight dry one through before I shoot it again.

 

[Kevin P McNeilly]

Kano industries which make kroil also makes kreen and that is the best carbon remover I've ever used. It's comes in quarts but it's worth every penny, if you don't have some I'd try it especially if you have over bore magnums.