Weatherby...your feelings

[Buano]

didnt know only your opinion mattered, 22 years behind said remingtons trusting my life to them, Im a little biased, ive carried them, jumped with one into the panama invasion, took one to the gulf war, IFOR, Somalia, and other places. So If its alright with you, Im not "hanging" mine on the wall!

Perhaps you could READ what I wrote, as I wrote what the evidence shows. Most Remington 700 rifles will never have a problem with discharging when the trigger is not pulled. However A SMALL PERCENTAGE of this model have, since day one of production, had this issue that Remington has done their best to bury. This is a problem with that model, whether it is caused by a bad design or bad manufacturing. The bigger problem is that Remington paid people off to keep this quiet instead of redesigning the trigger. Those are not "my opinions" they are the facts that have now become public knowledge.

I am glad you were served well by the rifles you carried. Perhaps you should consider how the people whose rifles failed feel — if they are still alive before you label all the evidence of trigger problems, "my opinion".

 

[J E Custom]

Wow
Never thought this thread would go this far but it has been some interesting reading.

There are a couple of things that I would like to clear up though.

First, the standard comment about the 9 lugs being a pain to lap in. They are very easy
because they are interrupted threads and therefore very accurate and strong. (The same
system that is used on all big guns like the 16" main guns on a battle ship) so there is no
question it is the best system for strength and fit. there is no cartrige case on these guns
and the breach must fit well enough to keep from incinerating the gun crew every time it
fires.

This machining process is very accurate and the lugs fit very well and are very close to being
perfect. Cleaning the lapping compound is more trouble than the lapping process and more
time consuming.

The next issue is strength, White laboratory's performed a test on all commercial actions to
failure by shooting each with a lodged bullet and a over load to the point of total failure
except that they were unable to destroy a Mark 5 and loaded an even hotter load and
actually flowed brass out of the blow by ports and basically welded the action with brass
and could not hammer the bolt open but it did not fail and if it could have been removed
it could have been used again (Of course it would have to be tested before use for any
unseen damage before use) but it did not fail.

As far as the looks I personally dont want a rifle that is prettier than me .Ha Ha and the fear
of scratching it would make me leave it at home. But allong came the Accumark and it is a
working rifle and looks like one.

Some of my favorite Mark 5 rifles started life as a beautiful rifle and eather kicked to hard for
the owner or the stock was in pitiful condition and they wanted something that looked better
and didn't mind selling there Weatherby at a donor price.

So just to keep things in perspective, if you ask the question about a Remington, Winchester
, Ruger, Browning, Savage or other fine rifles you will probably get the same comments, good
and bad, true or false. so buy what you like and don't poor mouth the other rifles just because
you don't want or like them.

There are quit a few rifles that I don't like but so what, others do.

In fact I kind of like the negative talk about the Weatherbys because it makes it easier to
find donors at a reasonable price.

PS: there are others that have heard about the white labs test and if anyone has a copy
please post it for the folks that have not seen it.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Kevin Thomas]

J E,

Agree completely. Once sold an absolutely beautiful Cooper in 22 K-Hornet, because I just couldn't bear the thought of taking it into the field and and dinging it up. Whatever the action, slap a McMillan on it and to hell with the elements or whatever else the field can throw at it!

If anyone misread my earlier comments, I never said anything about Weatherby's being weak. I personally don't care much for them, and as I said, they're not used regularly for competition, certainly not in the types of I shoot (HP, both XC & LR, and Silhouette). The actions are plenty strong, no question about that. They are set up to handle gas leakage better than a Remington is, in the case of a failure, and that's important. As someone has already mentioned, their lock times a bit slow, and they're a bit heavy (important in some applications). My previous descriptions about the Weatherby and Winchester blow ups are simply illustrative of the fact that no action is fail-proof if given sufficient incentive. I've never seen a Remington action blown up, but that's just because I've never seen one blown up; I know they're every bit as susceptible to such incidents as the others, I just haven't personally been involved with any. Not yet, anyway. Had a very interesting conversation with Allan Hall (Hall Actions) at a match recently, about what it takes to destroy a Remington. As it turns out, not very much under certain circumstances (such as the gas leakage I alluded to), but their extraordinarily strong as designed and when left unmodified. You want strong? Build on a pre-war Arisaka, and to hell with style. May be a bit clunky, but I don't know if there's ever been a stronger rifle action put into the field.

Personal choices, strong points and weaknesses, we all make our own selections.

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

 

[Trickymissfit]

They FREEBORE their chambers to get that speed most youngsters think one must have!!

actually Roy stated more than once that the free bore was there to reduce felt recoil. I might add that every chamber cut has some free bore in it, but the actually amount varies. I have a couple friends that shoot .300 Jarretts and at least one that shoots a .300 Ackley. Then I also know others that shoot the generic .300 Weatherby. Velocity is similar with all three rounds, but the recoil is different.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Wow
Never thought this thread would go this far but it has been some interesting reading.

There are a couple of things that I would like to clear up though.

First, the standard comment about the 9 lugs being a pain to lap in. They are very easy
because they are interrupted threads and therefore very accurate and strong. (The same
system that is used on all big guns like the 16" main guns on a battle ship) so there is no
question it is the best system for strength and fit. there is no cartrige case on these guns
and the breach must fit well enough to keep from incinerating the gun crew every time it
fires.

This machining process is very accurate and the lugs fit very well and are very close to being
perfect. Cleaning the lapping compound is more trouble than the lapping process and more
time consuming.

The next issue is strength, White laboratory's performed a test on all commercial actions to
failure by shooting each with a lodged bullet and a over load to the point of total failure
except that they were unable to destroy a Mark 5 and loaded an even hotter load and
actually flowed brass out of the blow by ports and basically welded the action with brass
and could not hammer the bolt open but it did not fail and if it could have been removed
it could have been used again (Of course it would have to be tested before use for any
unseen damage before use) but it did not fail.

As far as the looks I personally dont want a rifle that is prettier than me .Ha Ha and the fear
of scratching it would make me leave it at home. But allong came the Accumark and it is a
working rifle and looks like one.

Some of my favorite Mark 5 rifles started life as a beautiful rifle and eather kicked to hard for
the owner or the stock was in pitiful condition and they wanted something that looked better
and didn't mind selling there Weatherby at a donor price.

So just to keep things in perspective, if you ask the question about a Remington, Winchester
, Ruger, Browning, Savage or other fine rifles you will probably get the same comments, good
and bad, true or false. so buy what you like and don't poor mouth the other rifles just because
you don't want or like them.

There are quit a few rifles that I don't like but so what, others do.

In fact I kind of like the negative talk about the Weatherbys because it makes it easier to
find donors at a reasonable price.

PS: there are others that have heard about the white labs test and if anyone has a copy
please post it for the folks that have not seen it.

J E CUSTOM

a long time ago I considered buying a pretty blond stocked MK. V. in .257 mag. At the time the price tag was $365 (give you an idea how long ago?). A buddy bought it out from under me! Anyway somebody said something about lapping the lugs, and I said to wait and see what they looked like. I brought home my tin of red lead and a tube of high spot blue. I was kinda stunned when we saw about 80% contact out of the box unfired on the bolt! The female lugs looked just as good, if not slightly better.

Now I have one Vanguard that has a select grade walnut stock in 30-06. The gun shoots sub 1" groups at 200 yards, and better than I can shoot at 100 yards. I've owned that rifle for about 33 years now, and it's never lost it zero (it's so old that it has one of the very first Leupold 3.5x-10x scopes they ever sold). The rest of my Weatherbys are a matte black finish by choice, and cannot think of one serious complaint except that the MK. V is a tad heavy
gary

 

[B23]

What action do the older Vanguards use???

I know they have been Howa's for some time but did they make them back then too?

 

[Autorotate19]

My dad has a vanguard with the howa's action and its 30 years old.

 

[Flametop7]

I agree with JE Custom on the length of the post. I posted it for my own education and, thanks to all who posted, I have definitely learned a lot. I am always amazed at the amount of knowledge LRH has to offer.

 

[J E Custom]

J E,

Agree completely. Once sold an absolutely beautiful Cooper in 22 K-Hornet, because I just couldn't bear the thought of taking it into the field and and dinging it up. Whatever the action, slap a McMillan on it and to hell with the elements or whatever else the field can throw at it!

If anyone misread my earlier comments, I never said anything about Weatherbys being weak. I personally don't care much for them, and as I said, they're not used regularly for competition, certainly not in the types of I shoot (HP, both XC & LR, and Silhouette). The actions are plenty strong, no question about that. They are set up to handle gas leakage better than a Remington is, in the case of a failure, and that's important. As someone has already mentioned, their lock times a bit slow, and they're a bit heavy (important in some applications). My previous descriptions about the Weatherby and Winchester blow ups are simply illustrative of the fact that no action is fail-proof if given sufficient incentive. I've never seen a Remington action blown up, but that's just because I've never seen one blown up; I know they're every bit as susceptible to such incidents as the others, I just haven't personally been involved with any. Not yet, anyway. Had a very interesting conversation with Allan Hall (Hall Actions) at a match recently, about what it takes to destroy a Remington. As it turns out, not very much under certain circumstances (such as the gas leakage I alluded to), but their extraordinarily strong as designed and when left unmodified. You want strong? Build on a pre-war Arisaka, and to hell with style. May be a bit clunky, but I don't know if there's ever been a stronger rifle action put into the field.

Personal choices, strong points and weaknesses, we all make our own selections.

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

Thanks Kevin.
Your opinion is allways important as is others on this site. And I try not to target anyone
by quoting them personally, after all it is a open site and hear to help us all.

PS : I have seen some two and three lug bolts that one or two of the lugs had zero contact
and the one that was in contact was not 100 % making for a 50 to 60% total contact . The
worst was a Remington 600 and it only had about 30% total.

This is why I believe in lapping or cutting the lug surfaces true no matter how good they are
100% is still the best and strongest.

I have worked on a lot more Remington's so the per capita percentages are skewed against
the Remington's but I have never seen a Weatherby that had less than 85 to 90% so that is
what I am basing it on plus the design is inherently accurate and consistant just like the barrel
tenon threads if cut properly.

So, as all different people have different opinions and experiences I only know what I see
and if other people have different opinions I understand . and encourage them to post their
experances so we can learn from them.

J E CUSTOM

 

[chubby5258]

I have 3 different rifles one 25-26 in a 700 standard fluted barrel a 7mm stw in a sandaro and a 30-378 in a accumark. I love the 30-378 Shoots great feels great. I use these for hunting so they all have synthetic stocks and have been through alot of rain , dirt. etc.

 

[436]

I've owned many Wby's from .224 Wby Mag, MkV Varmintmaster to Lazar MkV 340 Wby Mag's... 5 of them in .257 Wby Mag in different models. Like many of you I have had quite a few; M70 Post and Pre 64's, Rem's 721, 722 and 700's, Ruger's 77's from the day Bill started making them... and pretty much everything in between at one time or another.
The Weatherby's never took a back seat to any of the others. Roy was one hell of a gun and cartridge design guy.
Yep I liked them, and still do.
436

 

[chubby5258]

Agreed Just the reason I bought one ! Simply the best !

 

[Flametop7]

They may not be the most accurate for the buck but they are great rifles.

 

[4xforfun]

I handload for quite a few guys. Many of them own both older remmys and brand spanking new Accumarks. You know, the $1300 - $1600 jobs. Every single one of them asks me what I think...."looks pretty good, eh". My response is like the gameshow Jeprody......Answer in the form of a question....."what is more important to YOU....good looks or accuracy"? 99 % go with accuracy.

My point to them is this....take your remmy, have the action trued up and a good bbl chamberd up for it....mayby a trigger. They start talking about cost.

Well, you already owned your old gun...it had a great scope on it. Bipod sling, ect.... You would spend around 800 - 900 for the BBL , trigger and the labor. You just spent 1400 on a gun......800 for a scope....150 for rings and basses, 100 for a bi pod, 50 for a sling......and have fair shooting gun....NOT the TAC DRIVER you REALLY want!!!! You just spent north of $3000.00 on something you wanted, but didn't get, as opposed to spending $800 and getting EXACTLY what you want. Even if you retire your old gun and take the scope, bipod, ect...off of your old gun you are still out the 1400.

And to the guys who don't own guns and want to start with "the best" (thier words, not mine) I explaint the whole thing to them. Start with a remmy...see how it shoots. If not impressed....strip it down and have a new match grade bbl installed with the action truing, and away you go. Or start with a custom action....which is what I do now.....and never look back!!!

Just my .02 . I don't seek these guys out. They are all friends of mine who want thier guns to shoot like mine. Plus, I like loading and shooting, ESPECIALY ON SOMEONE ELSES DIME!!!