Weatherby...your feelings

[TheHardWay]

^^^^
I guess it pays to be stupid...literally

 

[Buano]

Kevin,

What you describe would have destroyed most, if not all, hunting weight rifles. It's not a story of a Weatherby blow-up, it's a story of using the wrong powder with the wrong bullet and load data meant for neither in a rifle & daring it to explode. He's lucky to be alive. Perhaps he should accept a little responsibility for his f%$#-up & be done with it — at least that's what I would tell a potential client if one called with those "facts".

Yes, I'm a lawyer and I believe in personal responsibility. People (non-lawyers) are often surprised to find out most courtroom lawyers have little tolerance for blithering idiots and most trial lawyers would not sue someone they did not believe did wrong. I am sorry the companies chose to settle as that only encourages others with dubious claims to go forward.

 

[Flametop7]

Wow what a great story of how the wrong people get into things and somehow get over on everyone else. Hopefully he isnt near any firearms for his sake as well as humanity's.

 

[Buano]

I just told my 11-year-old daughter what this person did & her reply summed it up quite well, "That Idiot!!".

I rarely find myself on the defense side of civil suits as the insurance companies normally have legal teams while individuals who have been harmed normally need someone good to help them but I would have LOVED to defend these suits. I couldn't imagine a jury coming back for "That Idiot!!".

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Buano,

Again, I never said that Weatherby's weren't strong actions, just that I have seen them catastrophically destroyed. Seen it with other actions as well, and frankly, I've seen some that held up better under even worse circumstances. One example you can take a look at; I saw the immediate aftermath of a Winchester 70 in 270 WCF that was destroyed by a reloader mistaking a can of WAP (a very fast pistol powder) for what he believed to be WMR (the appropriate powder for what he was attempting) and loading a full case of that powder. The results, not surprisingly at all, were quite similar to what I saw with the Weatherby. The action was totally destroyed, the barrel blown free, stock shattered, etc.. There were some significant differences, though. The bolt held and never left the shattered action, unlike the Weatherby. The shooter suffered only minor (truly amazing!) injuries, consisting mostly of particulate matter and tiny steel fragments in his face and hands. His shooting glasses protected his eyes completely, the outline of them plainly visible as the doctor washed his face and plucked out the tiny fragments all around where they sat. He was shaken, but otherwise not seriously injured. I had what was left of that rifle framed, as a reminder to the rest of the guys what happens when you get casual, even for an instant, around something that can bite you so hard. You can see a picture of that rifle in the Sierra manuals, 4th and 5th editions, if memory serves.

I have nothing against Weatherbys, and they are indeed strong actions. They are not, however, proof against this sort of thing, nor would I choose them over a Model 70 or an M700 on the basis of strength. Frankly, from what I've seen in the field, I feel safer with either the Remington or Winchester designs than the Weatherby. Personal choice, but there it is, and that's the original inquiry of this thread.

The sad part is, while I know a good many attorneys who are decent guys, there's always some who are willing to side with such "victims" and absolve him of all responsibility. It's up to the rest of society to protect him from his own stupidity, incompetence and ill planned misadventures, at least according to their arguments. Frankly, I liked (and miss) the days of Winchester M94s, Colt SAAs and all the other firearms designs that ommitted a manual safety, requiring the shooter to be smarter than the inanimate steel tool in his hands. And for what it's worth, I totally agree with you daughters assesment. Sounds like an astute young lady to me.

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

 

[Buano]

Buano,

"... I have nothing against Weatherbys, and they are indeed strong actions. They are not, however, proof against this sort of thing, nor would I choose them over a Model 70 or an M700 on the basis of strength. Frankly, from what I've seen in the field, I feel safer with either the Remington or Winchester designs than the Weatherby. Personal choice, but there it is, and that's the original inquiry of this thread. ..."

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

Kevin,

We are in absolute agreement on every point except that a Model 700 is a safe rifle. There is a long history of Model 700s going off when the trigger was not being pulled that Remington has chosen not to address. Currently they are making more off sales than they are paying out in claims so they are unlikely to fix the trigger/safety issue — but I wish they would. As a former engineer with an MBA, & current lawyer I have a hard time understanding the reasons they would choose not to fix these issues in what otherwise is a terrific rifle.

Ron

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Ron,

My comment on the Remington was related to the relative strength of the actions being compared. As for the triggers, mine are replaced with Jewells (mostly) or some other aftermarket competition trigger. Aware of the ongoing trigger issue, and I think it's a bit spurious, to be blunt.

As for Remington themselves, I dunno. Like most companies, I think their business policies depend far more on who currently owns them. I'm a huge S&W fan, and I think they produce the best designed revolvers on the market. That said, I'll be the first to admit that their quality has ranged from absolutely top-notch, to abyssmal depending on the parent company who owned them at the time. Right now, the run of the mill S&Ws are of an outstandingly high level of quality. The current Remingtons? But the comparison remains; the designs of each are first rate, and the quality issue is another subject.

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

 

[rifleman0714]

First, you cant fix stupid. I have really no experience with weatherby rifles, me owning a weatherby is like putting a screen door on a outhouse, it dont fit. Just too flashy, now the cartridges, thats a different story, I have two 700s that are in weatherby chamberings, a 7mm and a 340. Love em, the remingtons are safe, the problem is the garage gunsmith who can certainly adjust a trigger, why spend the money on someone who knows how to do it? Then when something goes horribly wrong its this companies crap that they are selling. The bottom line is folks dont take responsibility for there actions! Thats a product of our "new and improved society".

 

[Buano]

"... Love em, the remingtons are safe, the problem is the garage gunsmith who can certainly adjust a trigger, why spend the money on someone who knows how to do it? Then when something goes horribly wrong its this companies crap that they are selling. ...".

I don't want to hijack this thread to go off on a tangent, but your argument is what Remington has always implied the issue was, while the evidence says otherwise. This is now glaringly clear since SWAT teams and military units have documented the same safety issues related to the trigger & safety system. The history shows most Rem Model 700 rifles will never experience this problem, but those that do are extremely dangerous. For now the only safe ways I know to have a Rem 700 rifle are: mounted on the wall where it will never be loaded, or with an aftermarket trigger. I say this not as someone who dislikes Remington products — there are two in the safe & one I sold was the second most accurate rifle I've ever owned (a BDL Varmint whose worst factory ammunition groups were right at .5" & best groups were consistently under .2").

 

[Trickymissfit]

Hello all,

I am an owner of a Weatherby Accumark in 300 WBY. The rifle shoots awesome and I would like to say I'm a proud owner. After conducting some general research and participating in discussions I have found you either love or hate Weatherby's. So I would like to know why or why not you are a fan.

Thanks again
Flametop7

I currently own two MK V's and two Vanguards. One of the MK V's is a .270 mag, and the other is a 30-06 lightweight. They are hunting rifles and in their relm they are at the top of the heap. Most folks I know that hate Weatherbys have also never owned one, so I take it for what it's worth
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

You're right. You either love them or hate them.

For me, I hate them. I have owned 2. I should have learned the first time. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Yes I was dumb enough to buy a second one.

Around my house, if something isnt usefull, it gets sold. I wasted a 2 whole springs and 2 whole summers (different years of course) trying to get them to shoot well. 2 of the most expensive factory rifles and neither of them ever made it to the field. I didnt dare leave success in the hands of a rifle that I had absolutely NO confidence in. They sure were pretty though.

Every time I sold one I bought a remmy 700 and had them dialed in with less than a day's effort.

Who knows, maybe I dont hold them right or something. Whatever the reason, I wont be wasting my money or time on another one. To be fair, I typically wont waste my time or money on any factory rifle anymore. Custom for this game is the ticket.

my .270 started out shooting 1.25" groups off a cold barrel, and now shoots around .75" groups off a cold barrel. The 30-06 is a virgin as it was kinda lost in the back of my safe for several years (I know!). I fully expect the 30-06 to shoot just as well if not better than the .270 mag, and I've never got too serious with hand loads on it as it shoots as well as it needs to.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

No, not a fan. Shot quite a few, never owned one, don't plan on owning one. As has already been mentioned, there's enough problems getting two locking lugs to mesh evenly and with ful contact. But nine? I know they're touted for strength, but I've seen Weatherby's blown up (badly) and no mecahnical device is truly idiot proof.

That said, I'm first and foremost a competitive shooter, which means Weatherby has nothing to offer me. They cater to hunters, and that's their market. But I've never seen one on the firing line of any competitive discipline, and don't expect to anytime soon. No aftermarket items (as there are for Remington 700s or Winchester 70s) available for the competitive shooters means I'd be fighting an uphill battle, and I don't need the frustration. Bottom line is, if they offered anything in the way of an advantage, I can assure you, competitive shooters would be using them. They're not, hence my lack of interest. No offense, but to each his own!

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

not to ruin your day, but a few years back there was a 16 year old kid that won thousand yard meets, one right after another with a factory .300 Weatherby MK V. on the east coast. He shot with the big boys, and this was his first time. Precision Shooting mentioned him several times.

If the MK V. has one flaw, it is a very slow lock time. And that's about it. It's the strongest bolt action out there with the possible exception of a Brevix Mauser.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

No problem at all. Case I was involved in some years back, involving a guy who should have been a poster child for factory ammo. The case revolved around his purportedly getting a 7mm/.284" bullet in a box of .277" bullets. The rifle in question was a Weatherby chambered in their 270 Wby Mag. We purchased a 270 Wby Mag identical to his and tried to reproduce his loads; 7mm bullet seated in a 270 Wby Mag. Surprise, they actually would chamber, though I'm sure there wasn't much in the way of neck clearance. We then fired this combination over 20 times, and got nothing but stiff bolt lift. At the end of the testing the rifle was, according to magnaflux examination, undamaged. The customer/plaintiff's rifle was completely shredded. Literally, the only usable parts that survived off that gun were the sling swivels and the recoil pad. The rest was junk. Six of the nine locking lugs were sheared off as though it was done in a mill, the action opened up completely, the barrel split at the chamber area and extended about a quarter down its length . . . you get the idea. The guy had used this same ammo the year before to take an elk. When he went up to finish it off, he found that the bolt wouldn't open. Wound up taking it to a gunsmith to get it unlocked, gunsmith told him that his ammo was WAAAY too hot. So what's he do? Continues to use that same ammo for the next years hunt. This time he wound up with a bolt through the face. Since we'd tried (unsucessfully) to recreate the situation, clearly there was more to the story that we weren't hearing from him. The total in his little comedy of errors that we demonstrated were; He was using an outdated reloading manual dating from prior to the introduction of the IMR 4831 which he supposedly loaded the ammo with; he was using data for H4831, a significantly slower and not interchangeable powder. He failed to notice the distinct difference in force taken to seat a .284" bullet in a case sized to accept a .277". He also failed to heed the pretty clear warnings that both the rifle itself and then his gunsmith gave him that the ammo was too hot. My own supposition here was based on the fact that the guy only reloaded a box (as in 20 rounds) every other year or so, nothing more. He also had a can of IMR 3031 on the bench (Red lable on the can) and a can of IMR 4831 (Orange label on then can, Red, Orange, they're close so what's the difference?). While we didn't try the charge weight he reported using in his original affidavit while substituting IMR 3031 for the IMR 4831, I still suspect that's precisely what he did. Since the sample ammo of 4831 we tried didn't damage the gun, that was the only logical explanation. That said, I expect that such a combination would deliver the catastrophic failure I saw in this customers rifle, no problem at all.

Never said the Weatherby's weren't strong, just that when you try to make something idiot proof, you breed a better grade of idiot down the road. This clown never should have been allowed anywhere near a reloading bench, but he did leave me with a few lessons and impressions that I've never forgotten. He wound up suing the bullet company, Weatherby, IMR powder company, the sporting goods store where he bought the bullets, and probably whoever made the cereal he ate fro breakfast that morning. The companies involved (not Lapua, who I'm with now) settled the case out of court rather than waste time with a trial. I've always had a problem with paying people for being stupid, but that part of it wasn't my call.

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

interesting! But it's also common knowledge that Old Roy used to have a paper weight chambered in .300 Weatherby. The first round shot thru it was a sqib, and another promptly pushed both thru the barrel. The barrel had a huge bulge in it, but the bolt cycled just fine. Either Shooting Times or Guns & Ammo even went so far as to publish pictures of the gun stating the all they would had to do was to rebarrel it and shoot. Try that with your Remington sometime
gary

P.S. Dan Wesson also had a revolver that did the same exact thing laying on his desk.

 

[rifleman0714]

I don't want to hijack this thread to go off on a tangent, but your argument is what Remington has always implied the issue was, while the evidence says otherwise. This is now glaringly clear since SWAT teams and military units have documented the same safety issues related to the trigger & safety system. The history shows most Rem Model 700 rifles will never experience this problem, but those that do are extremely dangerous. For now the only safe ways I know to have a Rem 700 rifle are: mounted on the wall where it will never be loaded, or with an aftermarket trigger. I say this not as someone who dislikes Remington products — there are two in the safe & one I sold was the second most accurate rifle I've ever owned (a BDL Varmint whose worst factory ammunition groups were right at .5" & best groups were consistently under .2").

didnt know only your opinion mattered, 22 years behind said remingtons trusting my life to them, Im a little biased, ive carried them, jumped with one into the panama invasion, took one to the gulf war, IFOR, Somalia, and other places. So If its alright with you, Im not "hanging" mine on the wall!