Vortex Viper PST vs Weaver Tactical

[TexasWicked1]

Nimrod-

I have used the PST 4-16 and Weaver's Tactical 3-15.

Both of them are so close to identical it's not funny.

Both utilize FFP, which is huge when using a mil-based reticle.

Also the fact that they are both available in matching turrets is helpful.

I never understood, why it would be MOA adjustments on a mil reticle.

Considering, MOA (minute of angle) is an angular measurement and so is (MIL) miliradian. It is a coincidence that when MOA is converted into a linear measurement that it subtends 1.047 inches at 100 yards. That is so close to 1" that most people consider it to be 1" at 100 yards. So a scope with .25 MOA adjustments translates to each click moving the reticle .25 of an inch at 100 yards.

It is a coincidence that 1/10 of a mil is 1 centimeter at 100 meters so most people go with metrics linear measurements for mil scopes. MOA and MIL are not standard and metric measurements they are simple angular measurements, many people think mil is metric but it is not.

If you can make your brain stop having to apply a linear measurement to your angular adjustments it is quite a bit easier to use a mil scope. You do this by using the reticle as a ruler to adjust for how much you missed the target. Say you are shooting 864 yards and you miss low, if you can see how much you missed then you put the reticle on where you were aiming and count how many mils it is to where your shot actually went. If it was 2.5 mils, then you just turn your elevation 2.5 mils in the direction you missed. It does not matter how far or how close you are shooting because it is an angular measurement. Mix matched scopes will soon be a thing of the past as it makes no sense to combine the two in one scope. All scopes with mil based reticles should have mil based clicks, I think in five years mil scopes with moa adjustments will be obsolete.

I personally don't think that Hawke is in the same league as Vortex or Weaver, just yet.

It has some of the same characteristics, but not close to how robust it is made and how much abuse it can take.

Plus, Vortex will come with an unlimited lifetime warranty.

Bbut I wanted to give the EMDR a go.

All in all, I have enjoyed both of them.

 

[42769vette]

i have a hawke sidwinder and a pst. they are completly diffrent classes of scope. the hawke is not barska junk but its not comparable to the pst

 

[Scot E]

i have a hawke sidwinder and a pst. they are completly diffrent classes of scope. the hawke is not barska junk but its not comparable to the pst

One thing you have to be careful of is comparing older Hawkes? Their quality has drastically improved the last couple years. What year did you buy your Hawke? Just curiuos. I used a couple older Hawkes and they aren't like the new ones at all. Hawke has looked to a lot of guys that know optics to find things that need to be improved and have made some nice improvements.

Scot E.

 

[Sami]

I'm discounting the weavers due to the glass

What is it about the glass that bothers you? IMO the glass on the Weaver is much better than on the PST.

 

[TexasWicked1]

What is it about the glass that bothers you? IMO the glass on the Weaver is much better than on the PST.

I agree with Sami.

Every scope manufactuer uses glass from the same company.

From Nikko Sterling to Zeiss, everyone use Schott glass.

Each of them is going to invest labor, assenbley, and margin for profit.

 

[Loner]

I don't think many scopes have Schott glass, just the high end and not even all of them.
March is Jap, Sightron is Jap. , Vortex is Jap. etc... Lord only knows how many are chinese.

 

[TexasWicked1]

Loner-

Your right, I apologize.

Things have changed.

Swarovski and Zeiss have their own glass.

As well as Japenesse manufucaturers.

But I can't imagine that Vortex, Weaver, Nightforce, and others assemblemed in the same country use different glass manufacturers.

I'm sure that there is only one or two of them and they have contracted with.

 

[Sami]

Usually glass comes from Schott or a japanese manufacturer. What you do with the glass (grinding, coating) is then done in house or contracted outside. Vortex doesn't make their own scopes, Vipers are made by a company in Phillipines and their Razors are made in Japan and pretty much everything else comes from china.

Schott is owned by Zeiss.

 

[42769vette]

Usually glass comes from Schott or a japanese manufacturer. What you do with the glass (grinding, coating) is then done in house or contracted outside. Vortex doesn't make their own scopes, Vipers are made by a company in Phillipines and their Razors are made in Japan and pretty much everything else comes from china.

Schott is owned by Zeiss.

diamondback is also phillipines. the only thing in the vortex line thats china is the crossfire

 

[TexasWicked1]

Vortex doesn't make their own scopes, Vipers are made by a company in Phillipines and their Razors are made in Japan and pretty much everything else comes from china.
.

I have to disagree with part of this.

The Razor and all of the Viper line( HS, PST, and Viper are all made in Japan.
The Diamondback in made in the Philipines.
The Crossfire is made in China, but the new 2012 Crossfire has been completely redsigned and is now made in a new plant.

I called Vortex and talked with Sam about this for about an hour yesterday.

 

[42769vette]

I have to disagree with part of this.

The Razor and all of the Viper line( HS, PST, and Viper are all made in Japan.
The Diamondback in made in the Philipines.
The Crossfire is made in China, but the new 2012 Crossfire has been completely redsigned and is now made in a new plant.

I called Vortex and talked with Sam about this for about an hour yesterday.

all correct except the viper is made in the philipines. i believe you mis understood sam.

 

[bruce_ventura]

Usually glass comes from Schott or a japanese manufacturer. What you do with the glass (grinding, coating) is then done in house or contracted outside. Vortex doesn't make their own scopes, Vipers are made by a company in Phillipines and their Razors are made in Japan and pretty much everything else comes from china.

Schott is owned by Zeiss.

Are you implying that Zeiss grinds, polishes and coats lenses for their sport optics in house? I doubt that any scope manufacturer does that anymore, but I don't know for sure. I'm just curious - don't mean to put you on the spot. If you know, please share.

 

[Sami]

Are you implying that Zeiss grinds, polishes and coats lenses for their sport optics in house? I doubt that any scope manufacturer does that anymore, but I don't know for sure. I'm just curious - don't mean to put you on the spot. If you know, please share.

I believe they do but I don't know for sure. At the very least all work is done within Carl Zeiss Foundation. Should be a safe bet since it owns both Carl Zeiss AG and SCHOTT AG.

If others contract Schott to do the whole work do you think Zeiss would sell them their latest and greatest? If Swaro and S&B can compete with Zeiss, I assume they must do their own work on those lenses. Other companies that don't wish to compete with the upper echelon would not have this problem.

 

[42769vette]

i BELIEVE swaro, zeiss both do their own. im not sure about s&b