Trigger pull then late fire

[WildRose]

Not a slow burn but a late reaction, I'll try new primers but I'm not too sure seating is a problem. No debris in flash hole and I've tried re firing the dud rounds and they didn't go off but there is a nice dent in primers I'll try federal 215 and see if that will do the trick

No, it has to be a case where the powder is slowly cooking off. The prime fires only one time giving sparks and a flash. At that point the powder either ignites or it doesn't. There's nothing else that can happen her to cause a delay in firing.

I went through the same thing many years ago with a 700 Rem 7mm Rem Mag in a factory sporter rifle.

The source was eventually identified as the powder being contaminated with either water or lubricant and I think it was the spray lube my partner was using on dies.

There are several possible dangers here from an errant shot striking someone or something you don't want to shoot..

You get only a partial burn leaving unfired powder and a bullet in your barrel that then causes the whole thing to explode in your face with the next shot.

There's a very short list of things that could be causing this problem and none of them are good.

I would take the rifle to a competent gunsmith for a thorough examination following you telling them exactly what's been going on.

While they are dinking around with it I'd go pull as many bullets as necessary to figure out what has contaminated the powder.

For safety's sake, please, do not shoot it again until you have identified the problem and gotten the "All Clear" from the smith.

 

[Rich Coyle]

"You get only a partial burn leaving unfired powder and a bullet in your barrel that then causes the whole thing to explode in your face with the next shot."

I pulled a bullet after having a problem. Inside the case near the primer was some powder that appeared to be sort of melted together.

 

[J E Custom]

I hope this isn't too far off topic...........

What is the proper safety procedure if you do experience
a "CLICK..........no fire" ?

In all the matches that I competed in, the competitor Is required to first keep the rifle pointed down range, then raise his/her trigger hand in the air and hold this position until the range officer comes to your shooting position, after a few minutes he can assist you in ejecting the misfired round safely while the rifle is pointed downrange. A few times the shooter on the ejection side was ask to move
from his/her position In case the round cooked of after it was ejected.

Wildrose is correct about the powder being the problem 90% of the time. When a primer fails, it is normally because it is contaminated or simply not hot enough for the burn rate of the powder or the temperature.

Contaminated powder can partially ignite and then smolder like charcoal for a while this is the main reason that you should wait 4 or 5 minutes before ejecting the cartridge.

J E CUSTOM

 

[LoneTraveler]

This is one scary condition. Once the primer has been hit with the firing pin it a guess what or when what will happen next. How Long do you wait on a hang fire. I would wait an hour. If you shook the primer or powder opening the bolt would turn the gun into a bomb.
Bad primers and Bad Powder have been covered well in the posts above.
Has the bolt, Firing pin hole in the bolt checked for unknown material, And proper firing pin spring tension to dent the primmer well.

I got an old 722 Rem. that done a lot of strange things, Not firing, hang firing, and blowing the firing pin back into the bolt and rupturing the primer and blowing the firing pin contact point back into the bolt with gas coming through the bolt. Replaced the Firing spring and it stopped all the strange happenings. Just a thought. Good Luck and be safe.

 

[FEENIX]

Unless I misconstrue your explanation, you might have a "hang fire" as noted in #11; check this out https://www.shootersforum.com/rifles-rifle-cartridges/56590-delayed-primer-ignition.html, esp #3.

Cheers!

Ed

...

 

[MagnumManiac]

No, it has to be a case where the powder is slowly cooking off. The prime fires only one time giving sparks and a flash. At that point the powder either ignites or it doesn't. There's nothing else that can happen her to cause a delay in firing.

I went through the same thing many years ago with a 700 Rem 7mm Rem Mag in a factory sporter rifle.

The source was eventually identified as the powder being contaminated with either water or lubricant and I think it was the spray lube my partner was using on dies.

There are several possible dangers here from an errant shot striking someone or something you don't want to shoot..

You get only a partial burn leaving unfired powder and a bullet in your barrel that then causes the whole thing to explode in your face with the next shot.

There's a very short list of things that could be causing this problem and none of them are good.

I would take the rifle to a competent gunsmith for a thorough examination following you telling them exactly what's been going on.

While they are dinking around with it I'd go pull as many bullets as necessary to figure out what has contaminated the powder.

For safety's sake, please, do not shoot it again until you have identified the problem and gotten the "All Clear" from the smith.

Your statement is untrue.
A hangfire is caused by not enough initial start pressure to compress the powder ahead of the primer burst, this delays the powder ignition because the flame front is able to work itself through the powder.
It is generally caused by too light of a powder charge in large cases, it is not caused by contaminated powder, sluggish firing pin fall and gunk in the rifle. Extreme cold weather can cause it, as the cold stops the powder igniting.
I have deliberately loaded rounds in 300WM with H4350 and a 10% reduction from minimum with 150gr Ballistic Tips and fired them with the pressure trace installed, the start pressure was so low that the delay was almost a full second.

lightbulb

 

[MagnumManiac]

No, it has to be a case where the powder is slowly cooking off. The prime fires only one time giving sparks and a flash. At that point the powder either ignites or it doesn't. There's nothing else that can happen her to cause a delay in firing.

I went through the same thing many years ago with a 700 Rem 7mm Rem Mag in a factory sporter rifle.

The source was eventually identified as the powder being contaminated with either water or lubricant and I think it was the spray lube my partner was using on dies.

There are several possible dangers here from an errant shot striking someone or something you don't want to shoot..

You get only a partial burn leaving unfired powder and a bullet in your barrel that then causes the whole thing to explode in your face with the next shot.

There's a very short list of things that could be causing this problem and none of them are good.

I would take the rifle to a competent gunsmith for a thorough examination following you telling them exactly what's been going on.

While they are dinking around with it I'd go pull as many bullets as necessary to figure out what has contaminated the powder.

For safety's sake, please, do not shoot it again until you have identified the problem and gotten the "All Clear" from the smith.

Your statement is untrue.
A hangfire is caused by not enough initial start pressure to compress the powder ahead of the primer burst, this delays the powder ignition because the flame front is able to work itself through the powder.
It is generally caused by too light of a powder charge in large cases, it is not caused by contaminated powder, sluggish firing pin fall and gunk in the rifle. Extreme cold weather can cause it, as the cold stops the powder igniting.
I have deliberately loaded rounds in 300WM with H4350 and a 10% reduction from minimum with 150gr Ballistic Tips and fired them with the pressure trace installed, the start pressure was so low that the delay was almost a full second.

lightbulb

 

[243winxb]

Hang fire- Mine were old GI 30-06 surplus, back in the 60's. Got the click, bang on some, other were fine.

No fire- Hand loading 22-250, CCI mag primer, H450 (discontinued) powder. Pulled the bullets, powder started burning, then just stopped. Bullet did not move at all. Only the sound click of the firing pin.

Ball powders- Can be hard to light because of flash suppressants.
Some coatings are used also, to control burn rate. This is why its best to use a Mag Primer.

Choice of components and other things. An example, with photos . http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4928827#post4928827

 

[Rich Coyle]

243winxb,

I had the same thing in my 6.5RUMLN as well as hang fires. I switched to Federal 215 and ignited the same powder every time. Holds 109 grains of water.

The photo of the case looks like when I had a new wildcat (6.5SLR) and didn't put enough powder in the case. I increased the powder charge and thing went back to normal.


6.5SLR

 

[WildRose]

"You get only a partial burn leaving unfired powder and a bullet in your barrel that then causes the whole thing to explode in your face with the next shot."

I pulled a bullet after having a problem. Inside the case near the primer was some powder that appeared to be sort of melted together.

A really good indicator that the powder was wet or contaminated.

 

[WildRose]

Your statement is untrue.
A hangfire is caused by not enough initial start pressure to compress the powder ahead of the primer burst, this delays the powder ignition because the flame front is able to work itself through the powder.
It is generally caused by too light of a powder charge in large cases, it is not caused by contaminated powder, sluggish firing pin fall and gunk in the rifle. Extreme cold weather can cause it, as the cold stops the powder igniting.
I have deliberately loaded rounds in 300WM with H4350 and a 10% reduction from minimum with 150gr Ballistic Tips and fired them with the pressure trace installed, the start pressure was so low that the delay was almost a full second.

lightbulb

Yes it's true, either the powder ignites or it doesn't. Burn rates are dependent on a whole lot of factors. In this case we're not talking about intentionally reducing loads to the point at which they no longer generate enough pressure to get the bullet out of the case or temperatures below which powder can ignite.

I'm responding in the context of the conditions present

 

[MagnumManiac]

Yes it's true, either the powder ignites or it doesn't. Burn rates are dependent on a whole lot of factors. In this case we're not talking about intentionally reducing loads to the point at which they no longer generate enough pressure to get the bullet out of the case or temperatures below which powder can ignite.

I'm responding in the context of the conditions present

Sorry, you are incorrect.
I worked for ADI, manufacturing Hodgdon powder, powder can and does start to ignite, then stop if the pressure inside the case is insufficient to hold the burn progressively. Nitrocellulose MUST have PRESSURE to burn progressively, this is why using small quantities of slow burning powders in large cases is a bad idea, and also why S.E.E. is a real phenomenon. We can do a calorimeter bomb, and have unburned powder present due to a lack of pressure, this is rare, but it does happen.

I will not argue with you.

H4895 is a perfect example of unburnt clumps of powder being left behind in a 45-70 because it fails to burn progressively. The powder isn't contaminated at all.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[WildRose]

Sorry, you are incorrect.
I worked for ADI, manufacturing Hodgdon powder, powder can and does start to ignite, then stop if the pressure inside the case is insufficient to hold the burn progressively. Nitrocellulose MUST have PRESSURE to burn progressively, this is why using small quantities of slow burning powders in large cases is a bad idea, and also why S.E.E. is a real phenomenon. We can do a calorimeter bomb, and have unburned powder present due to a lack of pressure, this is rare, but it does happen.

I will not argue with you.

H4895 is a perfect example of unburnt clumps of powder being left behind in a 45-70 because it fails to burn progressively. The powder isn't contaminated at all.

Cheers.
gun)

https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...17c0baad5902f4bc5e227758dda11ef5&action=click

 

[MagnumManiac]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...17c0baad5902f4bc5e227758dda11ef5&action=click

Your point??

Nitrocellulose doesn't burn like what you see it in the atmosphere, when it burns inside a barrel it has a small red flame, which is barely visible. The flash you see is powder gases cooking off in the atmosphere, google it.

It actually fizzes, releasing gas moreso than flame. Light some powder with a glowing ember, the initial flame and fizzle is how powder burns in a barrel under pressure.

Just as petrol burns blue in an engine cylinder and yellow in the atmosphere.

Pressure changes how things burn.