Thoughts and experience with expander dies to set bullet tension.

[holdinsteady]

I use FL bushing dies and sometimes turn necks to achieve best results. I have a good friend that swears by using the Sinclair expander dies to set the bullet grip. I'm considering trying it but wanted to hear from others about their experiences. Thanks

This past winter I did a test of 300WM Winchester brass in my Ruger PR to see how many loads I could get from this "cheap brass". I pay close attention to neck tension....usually try for a .0015 neck tension in all my rifles. I minimally neck size with a Redding bushing die only to the point where I get a little resistance when using the K&M expander mandrel. I use a Redding body die to bump the shoulder back as needed and anneal every 3 firings. I trimmed to spec as required during each reload. I have a portable loading bench that I can use at bench side.....slides into the hitch receiver of my pick-up. I used 2 different pieces of brass (both Win) for the test, shooting separate groups at 200yds. I use HBN coated bullets and loads were fairly hot....208 gr Hornady ELD, 72.2 gr RL22,Fed mag primer, COAL 3.603", ave velocity was 2935 fps. ES was 18 and SD was 6.9 for 23 shots. I was able to get 23 loads before I had a small head separation......and I believe that was do to an oversight on my part.....I think I may have bumped the shoulder back too far the last time thru the die. 23 rounds went into 1.2 moa at 200yds on that piece of brass. I retired the other piece of brass at that point. My take from this experiment was that Win brass is as good as anything on the market when prepped properly and that minimal sizing with consistent neck tension coupled with proper annealing will produce good results. I use K&M expander mandrels 100% of the time after neck sizing and just before bullet seating.

 

[clownbuster]

If you get the proper fit almost any method will work, but some will decrease brass life. I prefer to turn the necks to the same diameter and then size them with a bushing die with the expander remove to get the most consistent bullet grip. (One defeats the purpose of the other). Expanders of any type double the work hardening of the brass and shorten the life unless you Anneal.

I used to turn down expanders to get proper fit in some cases but then they were wrong for other brand cases of the same cartridge. Turning the necks solved this and selection of the correct bushing was all that was necessary to get the proper fit. In my opinion, if you are not turning the necks, a decapping die expander or an independent expander does a good job of sizing the neck ID but does nothing for concentricity.

J E CUSTOM

Agreed, as always.

Man, I always appreciate your wisdom and the ability to break it down factually and unbiased. We need more truth providers like you on these forums.

I'm just going to make a signature in my posts that say "whatever J E CUSTOM says. I think it will save me alot of time.

 

[antelopedundee]

I do turn necks in my target rifles. Obviously that helps. I don't anymore in my hunting rifles. I've got better things to do. I use bushing dies for some and standard dies for some. That means I drag the expander ball back through. Many of the dies I lapped the neck area to decrease the amount of sizing on the neck.
Something else to consider. You are working your brass more which then requires annealing. If neck tension is important to you then you just changed it by annealing. Also the very real chance of the neck being misaligned. In a good bushing die the case is as straight as it's going to get when it comes out of the die.

Lapping the neck area of a die isn't a bad idea, tho it does limit the utility of the die. Mite even be useful if different sized expanders were available and ideally they would be shaped like a Sinclair mandrel and turned upside down so that the tapered end entered the sized neck first.

 

[J E Custom]

Agreed, as always.

Man, I always appreciate your wisdom and the ability to break it down factually and unbiased. We need more truth providers like you on these forums.

I'm just going to make a signature in my posts that say "whatever J E CUSTOM says. I think it will save me alot of time.

Thanks CB

As I have said many times, I am not a good wordsmith and sometimes have trouble getting my point across, but I try.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Tree Farmer]

I'm still learning and appreciate hearing everyone's input, but when JE CUSTOM speaks, I pay attention. Please keep it coming!

 

[antelopedundee]

If you get the proper fit almost any method will work, but some will decrease brass life. I prefer to turn the necks to the same diameter and then size them with a bushing die with the expander remove to get the most consistent bullet grip. (One defeats the purpose of the other). Expanders of any type double the work hardening of the brass and shorten the life unless you Anneal.

I used to turn down expanders to get proper fit in some cases but then they were wrong for other brand cases of the same cartridge. Turning the necks solved this and selection of the correct bushing was all that was necessary to get the proper fit. In my opinion, if you are not turning the necks, a decapping die expander or an independent expander does a good job of sizing the neck ID but does nothing for concentricity.

J E CUSTOM

It does seem sorta silly to use a bushing die to size and still have to expand the necks. I suppose for those that don't turn the necks they don't have a lot of choice. If one is resigned to having to size and re-expand I'd not use the ball or tapered expanders that come with the dies. IMO better to do a separate step and use the Sinclair die and I'd use the turning mandrels which are .002 under nominal bullet diameter to keep your necks straight. If you use the Redding competition seating dies then you don't want more tension than that or you could end up damaging the die or so they say.