Super high BC 375 bullets by Mr. Lutz Möller

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by phar lap, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. phar lap

    phar lap Member

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    I was just wondering if anyone ever got to shoot those high BC bullets in .375 by Mr. Lutz Möller?
    The Viking and the LM-119.
    Just curious because there is a lot of info on the web about people getting their new barrels to shoot these long pills but i can't seem to find anything relating to them actually being shot.

    So if anyone out there knows something about it these bullets being shot and how they performed, it would be much appreciated.

    Cheers...
     
  2. groper

    groper Well-Known Member

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    There are a few threads around, not directly about lutz mollers LM119 and viking, but the bullets have been discussed in other threads on various forums, snipers hide springs to mind... The long and short of it, without being bothered to find the individual threads for you, was that noone has been able to get them to stabilize.

    This is for 2 reasons, and its 2 fundamental design flaws that Mr. Moller didnt consider.

    1. Boattail angles can never really exceed 6-8 degrees before you get boundary layer separation and severe turbulence over the boattail. This is why the viking design will never work.

    2. For a projectile to fly with good stability, the design must achieve an acceptable balance of center of gravity, center of pressure, dynamic and gyroscopic stability, transverse moments of inertia vs axial moments of inertia etc. The long heavy "adams tail' of the LM119 has a poor center of gravity, poor transverse inertia moment, poor magnus moment, and offers very little in terms of drag reduction compared with a normal conical boattail. This projectile requires a very tight twist barrel to have any chance of stabilizing (if at all) and why not many (if any) people have used them successfully. There are a few that have tried, but all reports i have read the bullet tumbled...
     
  3. phar lap

    phar lap Member

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    Thanks mate

    Good answer...next question is....what is the best bc bullet for the 375 that actually works?
     
  4. royinidaho

    royinidaho Well-Known Member

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    What would be wrong with the Sierra 350 SMK?

    I just got a 375 Allen Magnum, haven't even fired it yet, and a couple of hundred SMKs. I figure they will be the bullets to go to until Berger or Hornady or some other reputable manufacture comes up with something. OR I build my own.:rolleyes:
     
  5. MT4XFore

    MT4XFore Well-Known Member

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    Roy, did you finally receive your new playmate?

    Jim
     
  6. royinidaho

    royinidaho Well-Known Member

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    Did I ever!!!!!!

    Wife is bummed.........she don't like sharing the bed!!!:D

    Posts coming
     
  7. Augustus

    Augustus Well-Known Member

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    Pharlap, I fired both the Viking and the LM 119 from an 8 twist and a 6.5 twist. They tumbled from both barrels. I have fired similar bullets of different design with good results. These bullets will be available soon. If you would like some of the Vikings I happen to have a couple of hundred, let me know if you have an inkling to make some long teardrop shaped holes in paper.
     
  8. phar lap

    phar lap Member

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    Augustus....there are cheaper ways to make teardrop shapes in paper...lol
    but a post of the new bullets when that come on the market will be appreciated.

    Do these new bullets need a 1 in 8 twist barrel?
     
  9. Augustus

    Augustus Well-Known Member

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    Faster
     
  10. groper

    groper Well-Known Member

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    Well, Noels bullets will require a superfast twist, however there is another horse in the race now... A designer in Australia has been working on some super high BC designs (1.3+) that will work from a 10 twist... A Very different approach has been used is all I can say at this point :)
     
  11. phar lap

    phar lap Member

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    sounds cool...can't wait to see how they shoot...:)
     
  12. Extremist

    Extremist Active Member

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    groper,
    I hope they work out and we see them soon. I've seen you mention them elsewhere and am hoping to see something from them soon. Would be nice to have a high B.C. bullet that does not require a faster twist, but no one has been able to do so yet. Have seen many attempts, but no success. In fact, the Navy payed out some $30M and some 10 years of research for just that with the new 77 grain bullet for the 5.56, and it's better, but nothing spectacular. In the case where they have seen very high B.C. bullets that were shorter and didn't require a fast twist, they B.C dropped dramatically as it slowed down and tumbled at 1600 fps or so...actually reducing it's long range capability.

    Phar Lap,
    GS Custom has been making the 414 grain 375 bullet for some time now and it's been 1/2 MOA accurate out past 1400 yards. We have a number of customers shooting them now, including the 425 HV (hollow point version) as well, with good results.
     
  13. LR3

    LR3 Well-Known Member

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    Extremist I m very interested in trying the 414gs. I ve used the flat nose GS solids in 375 in my 12 twist but I presume I would need to use my 10 twist 375AM for the 414. Do you know what loads have been used? For the 350smk the load is usually 141or143 retumbo . How would I order them?
     
  14. Extremist

    Extremist Active Member

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    LR3, Unfortunately they will not work in a 10 twist; they require a 8-9 twist, with 8.5 being the sweet spot. The 355 will work in the 10 and it is an improvement over the 350SMK and will give you a bit more velocity. The load that I've seen is in a Snipe-Tac, and it was 148 grains of US 869. I only have experience with Retumbo in UltraMag cases, so I cannot help you there. As far as ordering them, though it wouldn't help you in this case, you just have to send GS an e-mail since they have not been added to the website yet...actually, quite a few bullets have not been added yet (Gerard's been extremely busy). Sorry I couldn't help much.