Suggestions on my group (Whats going on ?)

[jyenney]

Hello,
I am shooting a Winchester ultimate shadow 270.
Load- 130 Berger VLD H4831.

My question is I have gotten several groups that are 1/2" @100
I moved to 200 yds, and have had to adjust seating depth, moving .040 per step.
I have found two seating depths that are good.

The question is that no matter how many groups (diffrent loads) I shoot @200, my first shot is always to the Right 1 to 1.5", My 2nd shot is always to the left by 1/2" then the next 3 shots are a cluster in the middle of the first and second.
I have tried diffrent charges, and seating depths and the groups are always the same..
ANY IDEA??

 

[gillettehunter]

Are you letting the barrel cool between shots? First thought is as the barrel heats up it's shifting some. Has the action been bedded? Barrel free floated? All can/will have an affect on your groups. Try waiting 5 minutes between shots and see what happens. Most long range hunters are interested in knowing where the first cold bore shot is going. That one is the key. Good luck. Bruce

 

[Mike 338]

I'm not understanding the different seating depth from 100 and 200.

The only way to know if bedding is an issue is to bed it and see how it shoots. The only way to know if barrel contact is an issue is to float it (could help or hurt). That said, altering the seating depth .040" will only give you a "rough" idea of where the gun shoots best. You'll still need to fine tune it. When I find a rough seating depth the rifle kinda likes, I go .005" on each side of that and shoot. Which ever shoots best is what tells me to seat deeper or longer. I then go .005" steps till I find the best group. I then go back the other way and cut the best group and the next-to-best-group in half. Basically, fine tune the seating depth. During testing, I let the barrel cool about 3 minutes between shots and about 15 minutes between strings (just depends how cool it is outside).

I do things in this order:

1. Bed stock & float barrel
2. Do a rough seating depth test (6-shot groups)
3. Find Maximum Charge Weight
4. Find Optimal Charge Weight (OCW)
5. Test various primers for accuracy and/or extreme spread
6. Fine tune seating depth

 

[WildRose]

I'm with the other guys here in that I think you haven't given us enough information to really help narrow it down.

What scope are you using?

When errors are this consistent frequently it has to do with something being loose in the scope or rings/mounts.

If I'm reading this right you are shooting right at 1 MOA at both ranges and that's not bad at all. You won't win any matches at 1 MOA but you can certainly kill a whole lot of game if you can consistently be within 1 MOA of your intended POI.

Has this rifle been bedded? Have you checked the action trigger guard screws to see if they are evenly torqued to spec?

Is it pillar bedded?

What kind of stock?

 

[4xforfun]

Are you letting the barrel cool between shots? First thought is as the barrel heats up it's shifting some. Has the action been bedded? Barrel free floated? All can/will have an affect on your groups. Try waiting 5 minutes between shots and see what happens. Most long range hunters are interested in knowing where the first cold bore shot is going. That one is the key. Good luck. Bruce

It can't be heat induced shift because the shift in this case is going 3 different dirctions. Heat induced stress moves only one way.

Like the others, I think we need a little more info...including the questions that you asked.

 

[RMulhern]

Parallax!

Also....moving .040" for BS adjustment is a little much! Try .004" instead!

 

[jyenney]

Sorry guys,
I've been moving and away from the computer for a couple of days.

The Scope is a Vortex Viper HS-T.

Gun is a Winchester Super Shadow, I haven't changed a thing since I bought it a few weeks ago. It is not pillar bedded, but the barrel is free floated. STOCK

I wasn't sure on the seating depths, but read Bergers suggestions, and noticed that is did make a diffrence. So I will fine tune (Thanks for the info on fine tuning, I wasn't sure). As far as seating depths, I tried the sequence at 100 yards. But when I shot at 200 I had to change it, and found a seating depth that works.

As far as letting the barrel cool, I'm usually shooting 3 then letting it cool off then shoot 2 more.

 

[WildRose]

Sorry guys,
I've been moving and away from the computer for a couple of days.

The Scope is a Vortex Viper HS-T.

Gun is a Winchester Super Shadow, I haven't changed a thing since I bought it a few weeks ago. It is not pillar bedded, but the barrel is free floated. STOCK

I wasn't sure on the seating depths, but read Bergers suggestions, and noticed that is did make a diffrence. So I will fine tune (Thanks for the info on fine tuning, I wasn't sure). As far as seating depths, I tried the sequence at 100 yards. But when I shot at 200 I had to change it, and found a seating depth that works.

As far as letting the barrel cool, I'm usually shooting 3 then letting it cool off then shoot 2 more.

Personally I'd go ahead and do a good bedding job and install pillars before burning up any more ammo.

That bubblegum bedding from the factory is crap. Is it a plastic stock or an HS Precision?

If the former pillar bedding is essential for good accuracy and I'd lay some epoxy down the channel as well to stiffen it up.

 

[jyenney]

It is just the cheap plastic stock.
I asked a friend who builds guns about getting a B&C medalist for the winchester.
He said it was a waste of money ?

So should I buy a new stock, or just have the gun bedded ?

I just want a nice shooting gun out to 700 or 800. Am I being unpractical ?
I understand that it is not a custom gun, but I have Tikkas that will shoot out to 600 and very well, have never shot them past 600.

At one time I thought I knew more than I do. I'm realizing that now, I don't.

Thankyou for all your help !

 

[WildRose]

It is just the cheap plastic stock.
I asked a friend who builds guns about getting a B&C medalist for the winchester.
He said it was a waste of money ?

So should I buy a new stock, or just have the gun bedded ?

I just want a nice shooting gun out to 700 or 800. Am I being unpractical ?
I understand that it is not a custom gun, but I have Tikkas that will shoot out to 600 and very well, have never shot them past 600.

At one time I thought I knew more than I do. I'm realizing that now, I don't.

Thankyou for all your help !

There are lots of directions you can go. B&C are ok, H-S Precision a little better, if you like wood Boyd's are not bad. McMillan and Manners are great as are Precision Stock Works. It's all about deciding what you want vs what you can afford to spend.

There's a guy on Ebay who bought out a bunch of Winchester's factory stocks when they moved the factory and quite a few used wood stocks available as well.

I have a real affinity myself for the Laminated wood stocks,

You can make just about any of them work well with a decent bedding job and pillars. I've even made cheap factory composite stocks work well by digging out the barrel channel as deep as possible and laying down some Devcon and steel rod to stiffen them along with of course adding pillars.

There are tons of decent instructional videos on Youtube to teach you how to do your own pillars and bedding if the budget is tight but of course getting someone to do it for you that really knows what they are doing is the best way of ensuring it's done and done right the first time.

If you have the money then just go with a quality stock and have it professionally done and then you are done with it.