sub moa accuracy of plain factory rifles stock

[roninflag]

Ok over the years I have bought alot of savages remington and howas in bolt action I have loaded them with the rite combo and always got submoa groups no problem shot them just as good as a 5000 dollar rig I know people dont like to hear it but its true granted a 5000 dollar rig is easier to take shooter error out of the equation I admit but if you do everyrhing the same on the way you hold rifle pressure you hold the rifle with its sweet load they all have shot sub moa easily for me anybody have same results granted i think 5000 dollar rig equals way more solid platform to deal with.

midwest- over the years i have had factory sporter weight rifles that shot real good groups at 100 yards with judicious handloads. they do not aproach the consistency of a 3k custom.

 

[roninflag]

Feenix- those are some nice long range rigs. I Wonder which model factory rifles Midwest was talking about in the original post. no doubt a --rem 40x or sendero, sako 85 , weatherby accumark ; and especially the savage f-class or Lrpv are accurate factory rifles. team savage win with "factory rifles".

 

[FEENIX]

Feenix- those are some nice long range rigs. I Wonder which model factory rifles Midwest was talking about in the original post. no doubt a --rem 40x or sendero, sako 85 , weatherby accumark ; and especially the savage f-class or Lrpv are accurate factory rifles. team savage win with "factory rifles".

Aye Sir! I too wonder about that.

 

[lloydsmale]

you've been a lucky sob. Or are smoking crack. Ive had at least 50 and I mean AT LEAST 50 bolt action factory guns through the years and can only remember a couple that shot half moa. Ive had many that might have pulled off a .5 inch group on occasion but when I say my gun is moa ITS MOA. It shoots 5 shots moa every time. Or at least every time I do my part. Ive seen it all the time. A guy working up loads at the range shoots a 3/4 inch group and proclaims hes done and has a gun that shoots 3/4 in groups. I don't know how many times ive shot a 3/4 inch group with a load and came back the next day with 20 of them loaded and cant get 5 to stay into less then double that. Anyone can shoot a lucky group. Sorry but im SURE not buying that every factory gun you've owned is a 1/2moa shooter. there would be a custom rifle maker in the country if that was the case.

guess im kind of curious as to what you consider a factory rifle too. To me if you adjust the trigger and maybe bed the action you still have a factory gun. throw a 200 dollar trigger, 500 dollar stock or a new barrel at it and that's not a factory gun anymore. At least not to me. Im more of a long range hunter then target shooter so I don't need 1/2 groups (id like to have them though) If a gun will shoot moa its good enough for what I do. Ive had many that wouldn't do it. I can recall a few that I probably threw more money on bullets powder and primers then I payed for the gun and never go there. One I recall that I actually shot the barrel out of it and never got CONSISTANT one inch groups. I know one thing. I want to buy my guns where you do

But there is the rare ocasion in a factory gun that it is subpar but I havent gotten one yet in a bolt in savage winchester howa or the vangaurd or remys with multiples of said models that cant have there sweet spots found in load development and be applied on paper in oblong bullet hole group under .5 moa. This process with be considerably easier of a window with a solid platformed target rifle.

 

[shortgrass]

lloydsmale, I guess you just don't know how to reload ammo correctly. And I guess I don't either (and I've loading my own for 40 yrs., now), 'cause I've found factory offerings to be 'wanting' in the accuracy department. Fit & finish is just average, too. I agree with roninflg and lloydsmale, factory just hasn't the consistant accuracy that custom does. And, you don't have to spend $5000 on a custom to get that consistancy, like has been suggested . $2000-$3500 rifles 'll shoot consistanly, too. Sometimes, a custom barrel, proper bedding and a good trigger 'll do it, and that won't run over $900-$1000, or so. Don't know where the $5000 figure comes from.

 

[BigSwede]

Can anyone really say that any rifle will shoot a whatever sized group "every single time". Hmmm don't think so and don't even think Virgil King could do it in the "Houston Warehouse". If that was true then we as shooters wouldn't have that feeling of childlike Christmas morning anticipation every time we sit down to shoot one. Too many changing parameters work prevent it....Weather, shooter, etc. even test barrel rail guns don't shoot the exact same 'boring' group every time. If a gun shoots 1/2" a lot when it's 60 degrees with 85 % humidity at 4000 ft well **** that's good. But that rifle/load combo might not do it at 30 degrees 60% humidity at sea level. Word problem-----If a guy shoots 10 groups before hunting season that are hand loads for his back yard and they are all in the 3's except 2 in the 3/4" range .... What does his rifle shoot and what is it categorized as?? I've had some good luck with factory rifles after trying numerous powder bullet primer combos. I've had better luck with custom guns with a lot less experimenting. I think some factory guns shoot a few loads very well. I think custom made rifles shoot "more" stuff well... And some stuff much better.

 

[shortgrass]

Can anyone really say that any rifle will shoot a whatever sized group "every single time". Hmmm don't think so and don't even think Virgil King could do it in the "Houston Warehouse". If that was true then we as shooters wouldn't have that feeling of childlike Christmas morning anticipation every time we sit down to shoot one. Too many changing parameters work prevent it....Weather, shooter, etc. even test barrel rail guns don't shoot the exact same 'boring' group every time. If a gun shoots 1/2" a lot when it's 60 degrees with 85 % humidity at 4000 ft well **** that's good. But that rifle/load combo might not do it at 30 degrees 60% humidity at sea level. Word problem-----If a guy shoots 10 groups before hunting season that are hand loads for his back yard and they are all in the 3's except 2 in the 3/4" range .... What does his rifle shoot and what is it categorized as?? I've had some good luck with factory rifles after trying numerous powder bullet primer combos. I've had better luck with custom guns with a lot less experimenting. I think some factory guns shoot a few loads very well. I think custom made rifles shoot "more" stuff well... And some stuff much better.

I couldn't disagree more. I travel to hunt and to compete. I may have to adjust point of aim, but group size remains very consistent. Think about it. Why would a competitor travel across the country, or even half way across, and NOT expect to be competitive? More than just a few do. Same for hunters that travel for hunts they've paid for. The biggest variable in these situations is me! Traveling is hard. Going to higher elevation or higher humidity & higher temps, or to colder temps or to an area where the wind blows harder than you're used to has a higher effect on the human than it does on most well tuned custom rifles. Heck, I may just be tired from the trip! But if I'm not, a simple scope adjustment and I'm back "on". Choose 'premium' components (in your rifle) an expect and get premium performance. This is just one more place where "consistency" shows.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I couldn't disagree more. I travel to hunt and to compete. I may have to adjust point of aim, but group size remains very consistent. Think about it. Why would a competitor travel across the country, or even half way across, and NOT expect to be competitive? More than just a few do. Same for hunters that travel for hunts they've paid for. The biggest variable in these situations is me! Traveling is hard. Going to higher elevation or higher humidity & higher temps, or to colder temps or to an area where the wind blows harder than you're used to has a higher effect on the human than it does on most well tuned custom rifles. Heck, I may just be tired from the trip! But if I'm not, a simple scope adjustment and I'm back "on". Choose 'premium' components (in your rifle) an expect and get premium performance. This is just one more place where "consistency" shows.

Well said I totally agree with you. I have a factory 6.5 cm that shoots a certain load of mine 1/2 moa every single time on any given day. Even in temperature change, humidity, and in any season its always the same. My POI. may change but the group size is always 1/2 moa.

 

[lloydsmale]

well if that's your case then when a claim is made that your gun will shoot 1/2 inch groups it ought to be on its worse day not its best. Seems everytime im at the range someones there with a gun that claims it shoots moa and 15 minutes later there making excuse why it didn't TODAY>

Can anyone really say that any rifle will shoot a whatever sized group "every single time". Hmmm don't think so and don't even think Virgil King could do it in the "Houston Warehouse". If that was true then we as shooters wouldn't have that feeling of childlike Christmas morning anticipation every time we sit down to shoot one. Too many changing parameters work prevent it....Weather, shooter, etc. even test barrel rail guns don't shoot the exact same 'boring' group every time. If a gun shoots 1/2" a lot when it's 60 degrees with 85 % humidity at 4000 ft well **** that's good. But that rifle/load combo might not do it at 30 degrees 60% humidity at sea level. Word problem-----If a guy shoots 10 groups before hunting season that are hand loads for his back yard and they are all in the 3's except 2 in the 3/4" range .... What does his rifle shoot and what is it categorized as?? I've had some good luck with factory rifles after trying numerous powder bullet primer combos. I've had better luck with custom guns with a lot less experimenting. I think some factory guns shoot a few loads very well. I think custom made rifles shoot "more" stuff well... And some stuff much better.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well said I totally agree with you. I have a factory 6.5 cm that shoots a certain load of mine 1/2 moa every single time on any given day. Even in temperature change, humidity, and in any season its always the same. My POI. may change but the group size is always 1/2 moa.

My 5R .308 Win is the same way. If I'm on, it's on. If It's off, it's because I'm off. Doesn't matter if it's low pressure, high pressure, rainy, winter, summer, etc... That rifle just flat-out shoots, and my handloads for it work year round regardless of season or temperature.

 

[midwestmoa]

Ok as for what I define as factory is out of the box nothing done and I guesse I am a lucky sob with reloads over several days bench shooting to make that bell tuned is a hard expensive thing to do with some of those guns but once found I can pull and do under .5 groups consistently.Also im not trying to undermine anybodies other experiences they have had. factory rifles were the basic models in bolts the best shooter with the widest range of reloads I had was with howa ordered with a factory bull barrel but the bull barrel and wieght help alot 2. And if I was going to an event I would take a gun with a wider range. Also as for a rifle shooting consistently in different enviroments barometric pressures and temp long range one needs to level the consistency in.fps on the chronograph and as for different angles using cosine to get your horizontal distance and then use actual distance for wind figures and use cosine to figure your wind instead of the clock full half value method so yes ive done.long.range with them 2 also theres other factors once you start poking out there.

 

[midwestmoa]

The stock rifles I used were not wood I think factory wood stocks can be a headache with different humidity ranges.

 

[midwestmoa]

Also I dont shoot f class events so that probably means I shouldnt talk rite? but if I did I would use my custom rig built by a competent more knowlodgable proven results guy rite.

 

[ohiohunter]

Also I dont shoot f class events so that probably means I shouldnt talk rite? but if I did I would use my custom rig built by a competent more knowlodgable proven results guy rite.

1.... sorry.. right


2. If you want to be competitive that would be your best option. Anyone can send lead down range, some just do it better than others. I'm not saying you need to, but I have yet to personally witness a factory rig in the top spot(s).