still having issues

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by grizlywinkleman, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. grizlywinkleman

    grizlywinkleman Well-Known Member

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    Hey all,

    I put a post up a while back asking for help with a reloading issue I had with an AR I have. I received lots of good suggestions but unfortunatly I have had no success. Do to frustraion I put that chore on the back burner and I now have three rifles all giving me the same issue.

    Two AR's, one RRA and one Del-Ton, and my Rem. 700 7Rem Mag won't chamber my reloads or my proccesed brass about half the time. They partially feed the round almost all the way in than freeze up, not allowing my to work the action and forcing me to either take the rifle apart or nock the round and bolt loose with a cleaning rod through the muzzle.

    I'm not getting any major scratches on the brass in any particular area but rather getting many small scratches/scuffs on the lower half of the body of the brass. Not sure why this is?

    I have tried multiple lubricants, sizing the brass twice/three times, and cleaning the rifle chambers and the dies, amongst other things. I'm using RCBS small base sizing die for the .223 and RCBS FL sizer for the Rem 700. When I measure the brass with my caliper everyhting seems to be just about spot on with my reloading guides. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or what?

    I have been reloading for about 6 or 7 years now and the more reload the more problems I am finding.

    This is the process I use:
    I take the fired brass, tumble it, lube it (typically with RCBS pad), Size it, manually wipe the lube off with a clean towel, clean primer pocket, debur flash hole if necesary, measure length and trim as necesary, outside and inside chamfer mouth of brass, prime brass, charge load, and seat bullet (stock seating depth in this case).

    All help is once again appreciated!

    Ryan
     
  2. ShtrRdy

    ShtrRdy Well-Known Member

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    Your process steps sounds basically the same as what I use. The only additional step I have is to wipe the brass off after taking out of the tumbler.

    Any time I've had trouble with chambering a rifle, (bottleneck), cartridge, it's usually been due to my not resizing the brass enough.

    After you resize the brass, see if they will drop into the chamber without any effort.
     
  3. mtwarych

    mtwarych Well-Known Member

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    I use the same sb dies and have had no problem with chambering. Do you have your sb resizer set so the press cams over on it? That is the only reason I can think of that would cause the brass to be giving you problems. I did not read your prior post. Are your dies marked sb?
     
  4. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    I learned to reload on a lr308( should have started with bolt action).I was so frustrated until I got a JP enterprises ADJUSTABLE GAS BLOCK. Now life is good
     
  5. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Shooting in the dark (no pun intended) sounds to me like the shoulders need bumped back a thousandth or so.

    I'd take a fireformed case from the rifle and measure the case from the datum line to the base and compare that to a newly resized case. You might find that you need to bump the shoulder back a bit. I had to with my semi auto 223 or I had cycling problems, adjustable gas block or no (I have an ASI block btw).

    Don't take much.
     
  6. acloco

    acloco Well-Known Member

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    Are you keeping your brass seperate between the AR's and the bolt action rifle? If not, start. I use different headstamped brass for different rifles. Makes my life easier.

    Will a fired round from each barrel rechamber in the same respective barrel?

    I have to ask...what press are you using? Have seen a couple brands flex too much, no matter how much the die is adjusted down.

    Are you using the same shell holder for all of your resizing? You may have to purchase a new shell holder or start trimming a couple thousandths off the top of this one.

    Are you lubing the case neck prior to sizing? I run a brush through the case necks, then lube the inside of the case neck (with dry graphite), then continue with same reloading process you have been doing. Have seen buildup on the inside of the case necks causing issues like this - when the expander ball is pulled back through, the case neck is expanded too much.
     
  7. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Not actually germane to your issue, but I use Hornady One Shot spray in the die body every 30 pulls or so and I've found that instead of rolling the cases on the lube pad, I use my thumb and forefinger on the lube pad and 'caress' the cases prior to putting them in the shell holder. That eliminates any chance of a buckled bottleneck. If you run any number of cases, you soon learn what the 'feel' is if it's sizing too dry and when to quit before the stuck case remover comes off the shelf.....:)

    I've never used a SB die on 223/5.56 cases. What I did was fixture my RCBS Competition FL sizer upside down on the surface grinder and take a 5 thousands (0.005) pass off the base. That way I can 'bump' shoulders depending on how much I run the die down to the shell holder using an unaltered shell holder, using the datum line measurement method. I also use the tapered expander ball from the NS die in the FL die (at RCBS's suggetion). The tapered expander from the NS die pulls easier and flexes the neck brass less (according to the engineers at RCBS).

    I realize that makes the die unmarketable if I were to sell it. I'm not.

    There are a couple schools of thought on datum line measurement. I take the easy way out and use a Hornday Head Space Comparator tool and calipers, but, you can 'paint' the datum on the bottleneck with a felt tip pen and chamber the brass and check to see if the painted mark is scuffed or not. If it is, it's borderline tight and a 0.001 bump (or better is in order). The bump is strictly trial and error.

    I would, as a matter of reference, still have a look-see inside the receiver with a borescope just to make sure the machining is clean ad free from any burrs.
     
  8. grizlywinkleman

    grizlywinkleman Well-Known Member

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    Ok... lots of good information shared, trying to take it all in.

    Although I'm not dismissing any possible diagnoses, it sounds like my shoulder head needs to be bumped back. I'm not sure how exactly to do that but I have tried setting my SB sizer die as low as I could and also according to the RCBS instructions. Also, it has been a little tough to pull the brass out the expanding stroke of my dies, but I have been unable to find a tapered expander assembly online for my RCBS SB sizer die. Not sure where to look?

    I have never worked with headspace bushing gages and I'm not sure how they work. I'm contemplating buying a set and I'm sure the instructions will tell me, but I would like to know exactly what I'm buying before I commit.

    Do they bump the shoulder back? Or, just measure the case at the datum line to let me know how far the shoulder needs to be bumped back?

    Again, how would I bump the shoulder back?

    I have a older O style RCBS press. Doesn't have a model name on it? I inhereted it for free. It looks like a early Rockchucker.

    I have tried the Hornaday one shot lube, and lyman micah dry lube (not together) inside and out of the case. No progress made.

    I need to get out and fire some rounds through both my AR's and seperate the cases. The RRA I have never fired so definatly dont have any once fired cases. I was hoping to get lucky and be able to load for it right away. I shoulda figured. It does cycle stock ammo fine by hand though.

    Feel like I'm forgeting to mention something,

    Ryan
     
  9. ShtrRdy

    ShtrRdy Well-Known Member

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    After you get the headspace gauge, you'll be able to see if your resizing die is pushing the shoulder back. If it isn't, then you'll have to remove some of the height of the shell holder so that the press can push more of the case into the die.
     
  10. grizlywinkleman

    grizlywinkleman Well-Known Member

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    Alrighty, I got my Headspacing gauges and finally took some measurments. I measured 5 fired cases and came up with:
    3.466
    3.465
    3.466
    3.467
    and, 3.466

    I measured 10 sized cases and got:
    3.471
    3.462
    3.462
    3.470
    3.464
    3.469
    3.471
    3.468
    3.457
    and, 3.474

    It was no surprise I was getting readings longer than my fire formed cases, but I couldn't figure out why so inconsistant? I also observed that when I spun the case as I held the caliper snug closed, some of the pieces were fluctuating .001-.002 as I spun them. I took my die apart and found that the inside neck sizer was slightly bent.

    I will first replace the inside neck sizer and see where I'm at. Any other recomendations at this point?

    Thanks everyone,

    Ryan
     
  11. mtwarych

    mtwarych Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I can think of is to make sure you have the proper size expander and to slightly lube the case necks. Who knows? you may have ended up with a weird size expander. Good luck.
     
  12. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure it's bent? RCBS dies are noted for the expander ball/decapping rod to have runout (not centered in the bore) (easy to ascertain by inverting the die, rotating it in your fingers and observing the end..). You can also center the rod by employing the fiddle factor and finding the spot where it has the least runout and tightening the nut at that point.

    What I do to correct that is insert a ground washer between the fixing nut and the knurled top piece then tighten the fixing nut. What happens is the nut is pulling the rod in the threads slightly offcenter against the top knurled piece as a result of the slop in the threads. The same thing happens to any threaded into the press die to a lesser extent. I use a shim washer there as well.

    Ground and case hardened washers are available at most machine tool houses in many sizes, internal diameter and external. Thickness is irrevelant.
     
  13. royinidaho

    royinidaho Well-Known Member

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    Off topic , , , :rolleyes:


    What in the hell r u thinkin' about?:rolleyes:
     
  14. mtwarych

    mtwarych Well-Known Member

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    What I meant in my post was to use a case neck brush, roll the brush lightly on the lube pad and brush the inside of the case necks, not the outside. If this idea doesn't excite you, try the Hornady one shot with the cases all lined up pretty and give it a squirt into the necks. Hornady one shot after it is dry will not contaminate primers or powders. I still feel something is being missed in the resizing process. Good luck, mike your expander, and at the very end try calling the die manufacturer to see if there may be a problem with your set of dies. using a lot of force to get your resized case out of the resizer is a sign something isn't right.