Split group problem with ELDX

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by catorres1, May 23, 2018.


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  1. catorres1

    catorres1 Well-Known Member

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    I am trying to get the 212 ELDX's to run out of my Weatherby Accuguard. Using H1000, the load I tried today is 77.1 grains. I seem to be getting a lot of split groups...two or three in one hole, two more in another hole...Ran them over a chrony...HORRIBLE ES and SD. Velocity was only 2825 on average.

    Not sure what to think, TBH, I'm not a great handloader, probably because I despise doing it. [​IMG]

    I can't increase distance to lands....it is a mile away already and I am box limited, so I can't get close...I am thinking that is the reason for the poor performance.

    Oddly, when I worked up to this load, had no issue with a sticky bolt on this load, nor the next .5 grains higher (book max), but some from today had some resistance on bolt lift. So maybe my scale is the problem. I run the RCBS chargemaster, double check each load on a gempro. But that thing drifts like crazy, makes me nuts. Still, it should definitely be withing .1 grains, I am trying to get it to be within the .02 grains of the scale's MOE.

    Hope it's not the powder, just bought a whole bunch of it from the same lot based on initial testing, which looked very promising.

    Anyway, any thoughts would be helpful. Maybe have to move back to the ELDX 200 grainer so I can get closer to the lands. Might try the new Edge TLR.
     
  2. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    A rifle that shoots 2 distinct groups is most likely not settled in it’s bedding correctly or has a barrel that is heat sensitive.
    Take the rifle apart and look for ANY scuffing or other marks where the action sits in the bedding, shiny marks in aluminum bedding blocks is a sign of movement.

    Weatherby chambers have freebore, often a COL close to max mag length is optimum, but you can try seating deeper in .005” increments to try and tune it.
    My 300 & 340 Weatherby’s had 3/8” freebore and worked well with the bullet at mag length. My 270 Weatherby works best with a .050” short of mag length, the freebore in this is 1/4”.
    My 375 Weatherby has 1/2” of freebore, it works well with mag length also.
    A bullet can be far away from the rifling and still be accurate, it just needs tuning and refining, often a seating change works alone, but I found a powder charge variation may also need to be trie.

    Cheers.
    :)
     
  3. catorres1

    catorres1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply! I am already at mag length, so I might try changing charges first. My SD's and ES were really bad on this load....like 66 FPS for ES IIRC. I gotta think that is a major clue...wondering if the freebore makes bullet contact with the rifling inconsistent...therefore different pressure and velocity?

    Or maybe I just need to dial it back a bit in charge weight..maybe I am beyond it's sweetspot?
     
  4. Rick Richard

    Rick Richard Well-Known Member

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    You may have to accept the fact that the rifle just does not like that bullet. I tried and tried to shoot the 140 ELDX out of a 6.5 SAUM and battled pressure issues and inconsistent grouping. I believe the ELDX can spike with pressure quickly because of its long bearing service in my opinion.
     
  5. catorres1

    catorres1 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I called Hornady and they told me it that bullet does not work in some rifles. They said the 212 has a short bearing surface compared to the 200, but the ogive is much farther back and it is at the same time more jump sensitive as well as hard to get close to the lands unless you have a big, long box.

    Sounds like what you experienced I am experiencing...my initial test loads had no pressure signs, but quite a few out of the 25 I put down range the other day had some resistance to the bolt....while others did not....and again....that extreme spread was....extreme.

    Maybe need to do the 200 ELDX, the TLR (if I can find them)....
     
  6. WeiserBucks

    WeiserBucks Well-Known Member

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    Bullets are pretty cheap compared to some other things , try several different weights and brands , I'll bet you find a winner.
     
  7. 7stw

    7stw Well-Known Member

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    One other thing to consider, which I just learned about, much to my surprise, is that yo may need to sort the bullets.
    A well known member here advised me on that. He stated, that by using a comparator, and sorting the bullets, into like groups, he was able to get rid of the nuisance flyers. Not sure if thst is your exact scenario, or, as also stated, maybe your gun just does not like that bullet.
    Just a thought to pass on.
    7
     
  8. catorres1

    catorres1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the advice guys. Have you all found h1000 to be pretty universally a good powder here....I have a fair lot of it, all from the same lot, so I am hoping that is not a problem!

    Next step will be try and work up a load using some 200 ELDX's, as I have some on hand. TLR's, at least on paper, is the bullet I would prefer, but can't find any.
     
  9. Rick Richard

    Rick Richard Well-Known Member

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    H1000 is great stuff, but don't be afraid to try something else either. You can't force a rifle to shoot what it does not like.
     
  10. WeiserBucks

    WeiserBucks Well-Known Member

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    Definitely try H1000 if you have it available.
     
  11. catorres1

    catorres1 Well-Known Member

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    I do have h1000, maybe 6 or 8 pounds....so I definitely hope it works out. Got a bit of h4350, that it seemed to like okay with the 200, but it was not getting good velocity at all. Prefer to keep that for the 260 if possible, as I can't find that stuff. A little 4831 on hand. Heard good things about one of the new RL's thats supposed to be temp stable, I think maybe RL 25? it was. But definitely want a temp stable powder, hopefully the H1000 is not the problem as I am pretty invested in it at this point.
     
  12. therifleman556

    therifleman556 Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth... I tried 162 ELD-Xs in my 7mm-08 and got similar results. I started weight sorting them and got three distinct groups, running from 161.3 to 162.4...

    I weighed a couple dozen 168 Bergers and got one that 167.9
     
  13. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    You should give RETUMBO or RE33 some thought, these powders shine with heavy bullet weights.
    Although a different cartridge, I’m having good luck with these 2 powders in both my 264WM & 300WM with heavy VLD style bullets.

    Cheers.
    :)
     
  14. Lonewolf74

    Lonewolf74 Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe H1000 would be your problem. I would definitely start by changing some other component and keep using the H1000. I don't always get great velocity from H1000 but it's always consistent with fair ES and accuracy.
     
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