Some guys I just don't get?

[RockyMtnMT]

There is a member here that every now and then will come into a thread that has something to do with Hammer Bullets and qualify himself as a Hammer Bullet user. He will say that he has a couple of rifles that shoot them well but most of his rifles shoot them poorly. He assures everybody that his rifles are not the problem because they are custom and shoot other bullet into sub half moa groups all the time. He then will post pics of targets with tiny groups using brand X bullet and pics targets that look like a shotgun pattern from same rifle using Hammer Bullets. The other day I told him in the open forum that it does neither of us any good if I sell him bullet that he can't use and explained that we have a satisfaction guarantee or your money back policy. I asked him to PM me his name and he did, so I looked up his order history and found that he had bought about $900 worth of bullets over a couple of years. That is quite a bit, not just some guy that bought a sample pack of 15 and that was it. So, I sent him the following PM.

I Looked up your order history and you placed quite a few orders over a couple of years. I see the order of 129gr Absolutes in Dec '22.

I want to make you an offer. I have never seen a rifle that shoots anything well that will not shoot Hammers well. Over the years we have had 4 rifles that would not shoot well, with anything. 3 Christiansen and 1 Bergara. Nothing apparently wrong with the rifles other than just bad ones. Has been a few others that all wound up repairable and then shooting well. That said, I want to shoot your rifle. We will pay the shipping both ways and share the load data with you. The only thing that I ask of you, is you share the results. I don't want it out that we are doing this on our dime. It would create a demand or expectation that we wouldn't be able to live up to. We could just say that even though we don't do custom load development anymore, you and I came to an agreement for this rifle. If possible, I would like to have some of the ammo with it that shoots .5 moa. That way I don't have to develop that load too. This gives you the opportunity to have a great load on us and gives me the opportunity to figure out why it wouldn't shoot for you.

This guy never even answered the message. This is an offer of about a thousand dollars of service. Why would someone just ignore this? Seems to me there is a couple of scenarios. 1. He is not who he says he is. 2. He is more interested in bad mouthing Hammer Bullets than he is in getting satisfaction. It is frustrating for me when people that proclaim to have a problem with our product, usually have never used them. I have offered several times to refund an LRH members money back only to find out that they have never actually used our product. Those people are just nuts. They are pretty easy to get over and for the most part entertaining. I was going to call this member out by name but decided that it wasn't necessary. This time I thought I had an actual customer with issues that we could figure out how to resolve. I guess not.

 

[Baker Alvin]

WOW, What an offer! That is above and beyond.

 

[Rick Richard]

There is a member here that every now and then will come into a thread that has something to do with Hammer Bullets and qualify himself as a Hammer Bullet user. He will say that he has a couple of rifles that shoot them well but most of his rifles shoot them poorly. He assures everybody that his rifles are not the problem because they are custom and shoot other bullet into sub half moa groups all the time. He then will post pics of targets with tiny groups using brand X bullet and pics targets that look like a shotgun pattern from same rifle using Hammer Bullets. The other day I told him in the open forum that it does neither of us any good if I sell him bullet that he can't use and explained that we have a satisfaction guarantee or your money back policy. I asked him to PM me his name and he did, so I looked up his order history and found that he had bought about $900 worth of bullets over a couple of years. That is quite a bit, not just some guy that bought a sample pack of 15 and that was it. So, I sent him the following PM.

I Looked up your order history and you placed quite a few orders over a couple of years. I see the order of 129gr Absolutes in Dec '22.

I want to make you an offer. I have never seen a rifle that shoots anything well that will not shoot Hammers well. Over the years we have had 4 rifles that would not shoot well, with anything. 3 Christiansen and 1 Bergara. Nothing apparently wrong with the rifles other than just bad ones. Has been a few others that all wound up repairable and then shooting well. That said, I want to shoot your rifle. We will pay the shipping both ways and share the load data with you. The only thing that I ask of you, is you share the results. I don't want it out that we are doing this on our dime. It would create a demand or expectation that we wouldn't be able to live up to. We could just say that even though we don't do custom load development anymore, you and I came to an agreement for this rifle. If possible, I would like to have some of the ammo with it that shoots .5 moa. That way I don't have to develop that load too. This gives you the opportunity to have a great load on us and gives me the opportunity to figure out why it wouldn't shoot for you.

This guy never even answered the message. This is an offer of about a thousand dollars of service. Why would someone just ignore this? Seems to me there is a couple of scenarios. 1. He is not who he says he is. 2. He is more interested in bad mouthing Hammer Bullets than he is in getting satisfaction. It is frustrating for me when people that proclaim to have a problem with our product, usually have never used them. I have offered several times to refund an LRH members money back only to find out that they have never actually used our product. Those people are just nuts. They are pretty easy to get over and for the most part entertaining. I was going to call this member out by name but decided that it wasn't necessary. This time I thought I had an actual customer with issues that we could figure out how to resolve. I guess not.

Smart. Leave names out of this. We can figure it out on our own.

 

[257Tony]

I too have a couple rifles that won't shoot your bullets better than 12 MOA. Don't bother looking into my order history, just trust me ok.

Where do I send the rifle for my load dev??

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I too have a couple rifles that won't shoot your bullets better than 12 MOA. Don't bother looking into my order history, just trust me ok.

Where do I send the rifle for my load dev??

I knew that was coming!! lol

 

[wldcat]

The real hard part is load development can trick the best of us. I've always shot bergers but moved back to California for my kids and needed to go lead free and bought some hammer hunters and struggled to get a load as accurate as I expected, about 3/4 moa but hoped for better and I actually gave up and went to badlands that I got to about 1/2 moa. Was digging through some stuff and found some129 absolute hammers I forgot I had, threw together a quick fire form load with 52 grains h4350 in my 6.5ss and it shot .219 moa !!! Can't wait to tweak it and see where is goes. I think the entire time I spent with the hammer hunters I was using powder to slow….. been doing this for decades and still learning I guess!!!!

 

[Calvin45]

There is a member here that every now and then will come into a thread that has something to do with Hammer Bullets and qualify himself as a Hammer Bullet user. He will say that he has a couple of rifles that shoot them well but most of his rifles shoot them poorly. He assures everybody that his rifles are not the problem because they are custom and shoot other bullet into sub half moa groups all the time. He then will post pics of targets with tiny groups using brand X bullet and pics targets that look like a shotgun pattern from same rifle using Hammer Bullets. The other day I told him in the open forum that it does neither of us any good if I sell him bullet that he can't use and explained that we have a satisfaction guarantee or your money back policy. I asked him to PM me his name and he did, so I looked up his order history and found that he had bought about $900 worth of bullets over a couple of years. That is quite a bit, not just some guy that bought a sample pack of 15 and that was it. So, I sent him the following PM.

I Looked up your order history and you placed quite a few orders over a couple of years. I see the order of 129gr Absolutes in Dec '22.

I want to make you an offer. I have never seen a rifle that shoots anything well that will not shoot Hammers well. Over the years we have had 4 rifles that would not shoot well, with anything. 3 Christiansen and 1 Bergara. Nothing apparently wrong with the rifles other than just bad ones. Has been a few others that all wound up repairable and then shooting well. That said, I want to shoot your rifle. We will pay the shipping both ways and share the load data with you. The only thing that I ask of you, is you share the results. I don't want it out that we are doing this on our dime. It would create a demand or expectation that we wouldn't be able to live up to. We could just say that even though we don't do custom load development anymore, you and I came to an agreement for this rifle. If possible, I would like to have some of the ammo with it that shoots .5 moa. That way I don't have to develop that load too. This gives you the opportunity to have a great load on us and gives me the opportunity to figure out why it wouldn't shoot for you.

This guy never even answered the message. This is an offer of about a thousand dollars of service. Why would someone just ignore this? Seems to me there is a couple of scenarios. 1. He is not who he says he is. 2. He is more interested in bad mouthing Hammer Bullets than he is in getting satisfaction. It is frustrating for me when people that proclaim to have a problem with our product, usually have never used them. I have offered several times to refund an LRH members money back only to find out that they have never actually used our product. Those people are just nuts. They are pretty easy to get over and for the most part entertaining. I was going to call this member out by name but decided that it wasn't necessary. This time I thought I had an actual customer with issues that we could figure out how to resolve. I guess not.

Well I think you did the right thing with the offer…there's nothing like calling someone's bluff in a respectful manner.

For what it's worth, I can now vouch for the hammer bullets both terminal performance and accuracy-wise. I tagged ya in my post from the weekend, I got my deer. I was so dang impressed, I really wasn't expecting a 75 grain .257 still moving at way over 3000 fps at impact to exit a full bodied Saskatchewan whitetail buck and break three ribs doing so!

 

[436]

There is a member here that every now and then will come into a thread that has something to do with Hammer Bullets and qualify himself as a Hammer Bullet user. He will say that he has a couple of rifles that shoot them well but most of his rifles shoot them poorly. He assures everybody that his rifles are not the problem because they are custom and shoot other bullet into sub half moa groups all the time. He then will post pics of targets with tiny groups using brand X bullet and pics targets that look like a shotgun pattern from same rifle using Hammer Bullets. The other day I told him in the open forum that it does neither of us any good if I sell him bullet that he can't use and explained that we have a satisfaction guarantee or your money back policy. I asked him to PM me his name and he did, so I looked up his order history and found that he had bought about $900 worth of bullets over a couple of years. That is quite a bit, not just some guy that bought a sample pack of 15 and that was it. So, I sent him the following PM.

I Looked up your order history and you placed quite a few orders over a couple of years. I see the order of 129gr Absolutes in Dec '22.

I want to make you an offer. I have never seen a rifle that shoots anything well that will not shoot Hammers well. Over the years we have had 4 rifles that would not shoot well, with anything. 3 Christiansen and 1 Bergara. Nothing apparently wrong with the rifles other than just bad ones. Has been a few others that all wound up repairable and then shooting well. That said, I want to shoot your rifle. We will pay the shipping both ways and share the load data with you. The only thing that I ask of you, is you share the results. I don't want it out that we are doing this on our dime. It would create a demand or expectation that we wouldn't be able to live up to. We could just say that even though we don't do custom load development anymore, you and I came to an agreement for this rifle. If possible, I would like to have some of the ammo with it that shoots .5 moa. That way I don't have to develop that load too. This gives you the opportunity to have a great load on us and gives me the opportunity to figure out why it wouldn't shoot for you.

This guy never even answered the message. This is an offer of about a thousand dollars of service. Why would someone just ignore this? Seems to me there is a couple of scenarios. 1. He is not who he says he is. 2. He is more interested in bad mouthing Hammer Bullets than he is in getting satisfaction. It is frustrating for me when people that proclaim to have a problem with our product, usually have never used them. I have offered several times to refund an LRH members money back only to find out that they have never actually used our product. Those people are just nuts. They are pretty easy to get over and for the most part entertaining. I was going to call this member out by name but decided that it wasn't necessary. This time I thought I had an actual customer with issues that we could figure out how to resolve. I guess not.

Spot on, that's the way to handle it... good on you. Cheers.

 

[del2les]

Sounds like someone who stands behind their product.

I somewhat know the feeling. Years ago when I was operating my own reman and custom reload operation, I had a customer who placed an order for 140rds of custom 270Win for his rifle, and after using his rifle, my components and time, I produced a 1/2 moa load that was sold to him. Some time later, a friend of his and mine came by to state the customer was severely bad mouthing my ammo and showing people 4-6 inch groups he claimed it was shooting and stated he was demanding his money back.

After some time of requesting he come by my home range with his rifle and loads, he finally sent the rifle and ammo via same friend and would not come himself. After benching the rifle with his friend as a witness, I began to shoot 1/2" hole groups as per development. I sent the rifle and ammo back with his friend and the target signed and dated by both of us.

That customer never came back but continued to spread bad news about my business and product.

 

[MtPockets]

That's a great gesture, Steve, and I applaud you for making such an offer. If it was me, I wouldn't have posted about it because it just falls into the drama that seems to surround any Hammer thread. But that's just me.

As to why he didn't take you up on it, I can say that given the circumstances I probably wouldn't either.
If I'd found an acceptable bullet from another manufacturer, I really doubt that I'd chance it.
I really avoid shipping my guns for any reason and I don't own a full custom. It just isn't worth taking a chance on the clowns who handle packages anymore.

 

[Small Lady]

Sometimes it is jealousy, other times male ego, as the two most common reasons for guys making personal attacks I've found. You run a successful business, many are jealous of others success, instead of being happy for them.
Try not to take it personally, and always remember that you very generously offered to help him.
That is way more than many people would have done.
I don't load myself, but when I start to, will be ordering Hammer bullets, read many great things about them.
Blessings to you sir!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

That's a great gesture, Steve, and I applaud you for making such an offer. If it was me, I wouldn't have posted about it because it just falls into the drama that seems to surround any Hammer thread. But that's just me.

As to why he didn't take you up on it, I can say that given the circumstances I probably wouldn't either.
If I'd found an acceptable bullet from another manufacturer, I really doubt that I'd chance it.
I really avoid shipping my guns for any reason and I don't own a full custom. It just isn't worth taking a chance on the clowns who handle packages anymore.

We ship custom rifles all the time. Insured of course. No problems. I think most custom rifle makers ship a high percentage of their work. A reasonable reason not to take the offer though.

The offer still stands.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Sometimes it is jealousy, other times male ego, as the two most common reasons for guys making personal attacks I've found. You run a successful business, many are jealous of others success, instead of being happy for them.
Try not to take it personally, and always remember that you very generously offered to help him.
That is way more than many people would have done.
I don't load myself, but when I start to, will be ordering Hammer bullets, read many great things about them.
Blessings to you sir!

I could certainly be blamed for male ego! Probably why I made the thread. It ****ed me off.

 

[Reelamin]

Well, heck I never shot a hammer but a buddy of mine absolutely loves them. He shoots about 10 deer and 20 bear a year as in every year. Has used about every bullet known and is now on the Hammers. Yes, he can legally do so. I think I will order some up, be a wanker from my keyboard, take the elbow to my jaw, and send my rifle in for a bunch of free work.