simple gunsmithing work cost comparison

[EXPRESS]

Just for the sake of comparison, I would like to find out what some work I had done should would have cost me in the US of A, because I am disputing this bill from a gunsmith here in Italy, which I believe to be far too high, and differs from what was initially quoted.

Two rifles were worked on, a Sako 75 recieved a threaded barrel for a brake, Gun Kote, and a Picatinny rail with some modification.
The other a Remington 700 with got threaded and Gun Kote.

The bill; €1,140 - $1,465 USD

Here is who it was broken down:

Sako rifle:

Threading barrel €100 - $128 USD (quoted €60)
Dissassebly barrel for threading €50 - $64 USD (wasn't charged this for same job 2 months earlier)
Gun Kote barrel and action €160 - $205 USD (quoted €140)
Picatinny rail (including tapping/threading action) €320 - $411 USD (asked not to get too carried away)
Dissassembly for threading and Gun Kote - €50 - $64 (why did they need to do this twice?)

Rem 700:

Threading barrel €100 - $128 USD (quoted €60)
Dissassebly barrel for threading €50 - $64 USD (wasn't charged this for same job 2 months earlier)
Gun Kote small parts (bolt, rails etc) € 40.00 - $52 USD
Gun Kote barrel and action €160 - $205 USD (quoted €140)
Dissassembly for threading and Gun Kote - €50 - $64 (why did they need to do this twice?)

transport permits €10 - $12.80 USD
Shipping €50 - $64

Total €1,140 - $1,465 USD at current exchange rate.

According to the quotes, I was expecting to pay €240 for the threading and Gun Kote per rifle, plus the rail, which might have cost let's say €150, which is double the price of a standard rail. Permits and transport were not necessary because my local dealer delivered and would pick them up.
I just disputed the cost and have been offered a €100 discount.
Is it me, or is this just not realistic?

 

[.30US]

Sako rifle:

Threading barrel €100 - $128 USD (quoted €60) rrr
Dissassebly barrel for threading €50 - $64 USD (wasn't charged this for same job 2 months earlier)
Gun Kote barrel and action €160 - $205 USD (quoted €140)
Picatinny rail (including tapping/threading action) €320 - $411 USD (asked not to get too carried away)
Dissassembly for threading and Gun Kote - €50 - $64 (why did they need to do this twice?)

Rem 700:

Threading barrel €100 - $128 USD (quoted €60)
Dissassebly barrel for threading €50 - $64 USD (wasn't charged this for same job 2 months earlier)
Gun Kote small parts (bolt, rails etc) € 40.00 - $52 USD
Gun Kote barrel and action €160 - $205 USD (quoted €140)
Dissassembly for threading and Gun Kote - €50 - $64 (why did they need to do this twice?)

Total €1,140 - $1,465 USD at current exchange rate.

That's pretty steep. I based my rates on trying to stay under the median:

Thread/crown barrel $85USD/€66.24 (if you want to install a break or suppressor yourself)
Thread/crown barrel and install/blend/open bore on muzzle break $125USD/€97.41 + cost of part
Cerakote complete rifle $150USD/€116.89

I'm not sure what type of Picatinny rail you're talking about but I don't mark up parts over my cost on them. I don't charge for disassembly either, as it is necessary to do the job. I'm sure some of the professional 'smiths can chime in with a more experienced perspective. The truth of the matter is that I have seen from the customer side that gunsmiths can charge whatever they want, as long as they're getting customers.

 

[shortgrass]

Comparing apples to oranges. This question should be asked of other gunsmiths in Italy, not the US. Two different economies. What's a loaf of bread cost in Italy? Whats the cost of a KW hour of electricity? How many gunsmiths are there in Italy? I'm not defending the gunsmith in question. I'm just saying you need to make a fair compairison. I'll agree, he should stick closer to his quotes or have a good explaination as to why. Not sure why he'd have to remove a barrel to thread for a muzzle attachment, unless he's just not equiped to do it any other way. And then, that's his problem.

 

[J E Custom]

Comparing apples to oranges. This question should be asked of other gunsmiths in Italy, not the US. Two different economies. What's a loaf of bread cost in Italy? Whats the cost of a KW hour of electricity? How many gunsmiths are there in Italy? I'm not defending the gunsmith in question. I'm just saying you need to make a fair compairison. I'll agree, he should stick closer to his quotes or have a good explaination as to why. Not sure why he'd have to remove a barrel to thread for a muzzle attachment, unless he's just not equiped to do it any other way. And then, that's his problem.

+1

It seems a little high to me also, but I don't know what cost are over there, but generally they are higher than hear.

In my simple mind, a gun smith should give you a quote and stick with it. (If I misquote something.
I eat the difference) and if a part is higher than we thought, I notify the owner and ask him/her if they want to look for the part or find something else. (I don't mark up parts ether, and there cost is part of the build).

There should be no surprises with cost or schedule if there is good communications between the smith and the customer.

If the smith quotes a price and it's to high, it can be refused.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[bigngreen]

Was the quote for these two rifles or were you going of a previous job months earlier?

 

[shortgrass]

That's pretty steep. I based my rates on trying to stay under the median:





*************but I don't mark up parts over my cost on them. I don't charge for disassembly either, .

How do you stay in business? Pay the liability insurance, process the IRS required paper work, maintain a FFL, and keep a building up and still manage to go to the grocery store? I charge for parts what the customer would pay if he went and bought them himself.

 

[Hired Gun]

If he gave a quote he should have honored it. In US dollars it doesn't seem that far off. Some things are higher and some lower.

I believe he pulled the barrel to thread the receiver for the Pic rail or maybe it needed an extension to fit in the lathe. I'm sure he can explain why it cost the extra this time and not last time. I used to not charge if I had to pull a barrel to install a brake but on some rifles this is a chore with substantial risk so we had to start charging extra when they needed that.

The assemble disassemble separate charge on the coatings is how some guys charge it out to detail strip the rifle and put it back together.

 

[.30US]

How do you stay in business? Pay the liability insurance, process the IRS required paper work, maintain a FFL, and keep a building up and still manage to go to the grocery store? I charge for parts what the customer would pay if he went and bought them himself.

I don't live off riflesmithing and don't plan to go full-time, either. Labor charges are matching up with my business plan. Nearly everyone gets Brownell's "discount," so I can't see charging more than what I pay for an item. If I get to doing enough volume with a particular supplier, then I'll pass that discount on to the customer, too. For the time being, the big parts houses seem to be the best prices around. I'll let Larry at MidwayUSA do the stocking, get the bulk of the volume discount, and take a little piece because he usually has what I need ready to ship so I don't have to wait or sink funds into keeping stock for a small business. I think I've spoken to just about every manufacturer and I don't see myself doing enough volume to take advantage of their discounts for the time being.

 

[shortgrass]

I don't live off riflesmithing and don't plan to go full-time, either. Labor charges are matching up with my business plan. Nearly everyone gets Brownell's "discount," so I can't see charging more than what I pay for an item. If I get to doing enough volume with a particular supplier, then I'll pass that discount on to the customer, too. For the time being, the big parts houses seem to be the best prices around. I'll let Larry at MidwayUSA do the stocking, get the bulk of the volume discount, and take a little piece because he usually has what I need ready to ship so I don't have to wait or sink funds into keeping stock for a small business. I think I've spoken to just about every manufacturer and I don't see myself doing enough volume to take advantage of their discounts for the time being.

Man, if I tried that the sales tax arm of the tax commission would be all over me! And, I only use Brownells when a whole saler doesn't carry what I want/need.

 

[.30US]

Man, if I tried that the sales tax arm of the tax commission would be all over me! And, I only use Brownells when a whole saler doesn't carry what I want/need.

I guess we all have our problems. Few FFLs have a desire to help a new one in their community and most gunsmiths don't have the time. I suggested a business side of gunsmithing course to a curriculum director at one of the community colleges with a gunsmithing program as a way to help new folks.

 

[sable tireur]

Express,

Tough call because of all the variables already mentioned. Besides, it's up to the client to accept or reject the costs on a quote. The gunsmith is responsible to stick to the quote barring unforeseen circumstances given that there is contact with the client and acceptance of the variance. Notice of price changes or other additional charges requires notice in this country from responsible gunsmiths.

Thread for suppressor (includes thread protector) $175
Thread muzzle only $125

Cerakote barreled action, scope base, bottom metal: Matte Black, OD green, FDE, Coyote Tan, Mil Spec OD green. $290

Basic muzzle brake threading and installation Incl. brake. $180

There are no charges for assembly/disassembly based on the work requested.

Regards.

 

[sable tireur]

.30US,

I guess we all have our problems. Few FFLs have a desire to help a new one in their community and most gunsmiths don't have the time. I suggested a business side of gunsmithing course to a curriculum director at one of the community colleges with a gunsmithing program as a way to help new folks.

Unfortunately, this twist has hijacked the original posters question. But since your contact information is blocked on my system, I'll respond instead of writing an e-mail.

We, the company I work with, and I personally, have and will take the time to answer questions or assist newer or inexperienced gunsmiths. We even have them in the shop to observe and learn.

I apprenticed for 3 years without pay and then with minimum wages. This is after 2-1/2 years in a gunsmithing program. My experience is hard won and should come at a price based on commercial practices in this country but I don't charge.

When I was teaching, I put a business practices section in each of the courses I taught. Then I organized a special class offered by the school just for gunsmiths which, at the time, taught computer skills and business practices. You'd be surprised at the number students proficient with a smart phone but have no knowledge of real computers and programs at all.

Regards.