shooting a running deer

[toddc]

Oh Man!! Todd aren't you laying it on a little thick here? Come on, I have never heard of a guide punching a client before. Clients make mistakes and do things wrong. It is expected. A good guide watches for it. The client does it from lack of experience and the adrenaline rush of being in an unfamiliar, exciting situation. They hire a guide because they need help and lack experience. Mistakes are expected. But punching them and now insinuating they could be buried in the field or have to fight the whole family????? Dude you drank too many Monsters today.

Jeff

Hangover. Naw you had to be there I was literally trying to tear the gun from his hands because I knew he was gonna shoot. I shouldnt have slugged him but we have these conversations before at sight in time and they know our policy. This guy had the "I paid for a slave attitude" and needed his *** beat after taking that shot running at 200+ when he couldnt hit one at 90 standing off of a rest. I have heard of a few other guides and clients getting sideways though. It does happen. I wouldnt want to be on his home turf is all. Deal with guys long enough and all kinds of wild stuff will happen. I could tell you some stories about running a fishing camo in old mexico that might surprise you.

 

[thehulk]

Funny youre from the same state of the dude who got knocked out. I did sucker punch his *** tho. I had already had the no running shots talk with him as I do every client. When you hunt with a guide you dont OWN him. If you do something stupid its no different than if you were just two guys hunting. Take that attitude on your first guided hunt and it wont be any fun. Remember you are hunting with a guy who probably has 2-3 spots picked out to bury you if he had to or tell his brother the sheriff about your hunting accident. Guides arent slaves or your personal tote boys and you are paying them for a reason. EXPERTISE. Dont mess with an expert on his home ground, you might beat your guides *** to suddenly meet his whole family when you are a 1000 miles from home. Have fun with that one.
And no I dont normally punch customers but I was yelling in his ear "DONT SHOOT" then blam, splat and a hunched up deer at 400 running in 4ft tall grass at dark. He got punched.

Yea that is kinda funny isnt it? Figures someone with your class would sucker punch someone. Glad to know every guide is probably as sadistic as yourself with 3 planned spots to hide a human body if they decide my mistake is worth taking my life.... real nice Toddc.

If he hit a deer at 400yards running, your probably should of left his *** alone and did what you were paid to do, find his animal.

 

[Coyboy]

It is possible and as long as you are capable of killing the deer, ethical too.
We have lots of driven hunts in Germany every year, it is one of the best ways to kill boars that infested a corn field.
Use a red dot sight or a very low magnification scope, get practice at moving targets, we have moving boar targets at any shooting range for hunters (I will post a video when Im back at my pc, blasted mobile) and limit your shots to reasonable range ~60-70yards.
Don't use a pea shooter either, .308 upwards.

Best advice so far.

What makes a good running shot shooter?

Well years of on target practice. Starts when your a kid shooting rabbits, ducks, blackbirds, pigeons ect. You might have started rabbit hunting with a 22 as I did. Hell I shot a mess of feral cats running with that 22 when I was a young teen.

Good wing shooters can transfer over to mammals pretty easy, so might want to get practice there.

Every year I would spend a week chasing coyotes in ND, lots of running shots at distances way out there, but the bread and butter dogs always hit the dirt at or under 200. Between 200-400 hit rates start to really drop off, but with proper angles some of these were very doable.

Like what was stated 0-4 power max when running shot, large field of view is critical to success, even if your shooting 400 yards on fast movers. You can calculate leads for animals of different speeds and angles based on bullet time of flight and distance. This is important to do in the beginning so you have something to baseline off of for ballpark leads. Start with close targets and then as you can get consistent hits increase your distance.

My last running deer was a 3 legged doe the neighbor hit in Novembers gun season, he kicked it up and it crossed the property line on a dead run (well for a 3 legged one) at about 100 yards I put a lead on it and stoned it with a first shot hit thru both shoulders. To be honest I wasn't the least bit surprised, expected the outcome.

 

[crazyhorse]

I second the poster who wants to know the name of your "guide" business so no one wastes their hard earned money on your crappy attitude!

I'm just as big a steward of wildlife and conservation as there could be, but would never consider punching someone (ESP. A sucker punch) for a decision they made in error in the heat of the moment.

I bet your the kind of know it all D-bag who bristles at any response other than yessir! Remember, most people save for a long time to have an opportunity to hunt a new animal in different country. I could only imagine realizing I had spent it with someone like yourself.

 

[toddc]

Todd could you tell me the name of your guide service please I want to make sure I nor any of my associates NEVER book a hunt with you. I am being serious as hell to threaten to bury someone verges on stupidity especially on a public forum.

Please. I didnt threaten to bury anyone gawd. I did point out that you are hunting on the guides home turf and all that that brings with it. If you do something that a guide dots your eye over ya probly oughta chalk it up to experience and call it a day. Your guide lives where you are hunting. Period. They are most likely related to or friends with the whole county. The hulks statement that he would whoop the guides *** would get him into a lot of trouble with a lot of people. You are relying on that person to keep you alive and your gonna beat his ***? A guide can lose a customer ...can you lose your life?
I guess the point is that you should act like a human being and remember that the guy who is guiding you often has your life in his hands. I mean for real a guide could just LOSE YOU if he wanted to or screw you over by putting you in the last place on earth a deer will walk by or move your scope or bla bla bla. Your hunt and sometimes life is in thier hands.
And yes there are times when clients have to be disciplined or booted or whatever it takes to keep your business running on an even keel and keep your other clients from being disturbed.
If youve never had to boot a customer you havent run that many clients thru or your real lucky or dont have prohibitions against drinking.
Some people I just wont put in the field with a gun and me or an employee and we never discover that until they are here. I personally would wonder about any outfitter who has never booted anyone. Either they wont admit it or they are reaaaaaal lucky. Or they may not have the sense to know when someone is an accident waiting to happen.
Guiding mass quantities of people in the field is not as easy as some of you may assume and sometimes you have to balance the customer always being right with a real moron who could care less about you or the game being hunted.
Sorry if you guys dont like the reality of the business but thats it.

 

[thehulk]

Please. I didnt threaten to bury anyone gawd. I did point out that you are hunting on the guides home turf and all that that brings with it. If you do something that a guide dots your eye over ya probly oughta chalk it up to experience and call it a day. Your guide lives where you are hunting. Period. They are most likely related to or friends with the whole county. The hulks statement that he would whoop the guides *** would get him into a lot of trouble with a lot of people. You are relying on that person to keep you alive and your gonna beat his ***? A guide can lose a customer ...can you lose your life?
I guess the point is that you should act like a human being and remember that the guy who is guiding you often has your life in his hands. I mean for real a guide could just LOSE YOU if he wanted to or screw you over by putting you in the last place on earth a deer will walk by or move your scope or bla bla bla. Your hunt and sometimes life is in thier hands.
And yes there are times when clients have to be disciplined or booted or whatever it takes to keep your business running on an even keel and keep your other clients from being disturbed.
If youve never had to boot a customer you havent run that many clients thru or your real lucky or dont have prohibitions against drinking.
Some people I just wont put in the field with a gun and me or an employee and we never discover that until they are here. I personally would wonder about any outfitter who has never booted anyone. Either they wont admit it or they are reaaaaaal lucky. Or they may not have the sense to know when someone is an accident waiting to happen.
Guiding mass quantities of people in the field is not as easy as some of you may assume and sometimes you have to balance the customer always being right with a real moron who could care less about you or the game being hunted.
Sorry if you guys dont like the reality of the business but thats it.

My statement which I stand by 100% was that if I was paying for a guide and he punched me (sucker punched at that) I would beat his ***, assuming I wasn't unconscious. I might also add that anyone who sucker punches someone and doesnt drop them is physically weak..... I wouldnt admit that honestly. But aside from that, you admittedly assaulted one of your paying clients for simply getting caught up in the moment. Again, real classy.

You should of been arrested.

 

[Broz]

Guess we are just real lucky out here Todd. Or maybe the guiding business here are all run wrong. But I have never seen or heard of any client getting so far out of hand that a stern private talking to, (explaining the dangers or policies) didn't cure the problem. Or at worst send them home if they have an attitude. As taught in my NRA instructor course, attitude and firearms do not mix. Separate them! I can't imaging the attitude that forceful contact between a "guide" and client could generate. Think I will stay away from that one.

Thanks
Jeff

 

[MachV]

Good avise from Beng and Coyboy!
We used to break out the clay pigions before deer season. Just like anything else a little practice goes a long way. That and one of the local ranges held a running deer shoot before season every year, they had a plywood deer cutout they run back and forth on a cable=Great way to practice!
The one thing we learned early about shooting at running deer was to do a good job of following up after any shooting. Dont asume you missed or hit=check and double check every time! Most crumble when hit but if shot in the boiler room they can go a ways without much sigh of being hit.
Never liked to start shooting at a running deer but once I started the gun was emty or it became unsafe to continue before I stopped and all where inside of 100 yards and closer to 50 yards.
We tryed the rolling tires thing but it gets to be a lot of work rolling the tires back up the hill That and to be safe its hard to find a spot where the guys rolling the tires are out te line of fire at ALL times......We had one spot with a berm that totaly protected the rollers.

 

[thehulk]

Guess we are just real lucky out here Todd. Or maybe the guiding business here are all run wrong. But I have never seen or heard of any client getting so far out of hand that a stern private talking to, (explaining the dangers or policies) didn't cure the problem. Or at worst send them home if they have an attitude. As taught in my NRA instructor course, attitude and firearms do not mix. Separate them! I can't imaging the attitude that forceful contact between a "guide" and client could generate. Think I will stay away from that one.

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff, apparently Oklahoman's like myself are of the rowdy sort. We don't know how to act..... If I get out of hand or try to make a shot you dont want me to shoot, just sock me in the back of my head. Thats fixes everything, I'll chalk it up to "lessons learned."

 

[4xforfun]

You are relying on that person to keep you alive and your gonna beat his ***?

You are so full of yourself that it is laughable. It seems to me that it is the client that keeps YOU AND YOUR BUISNESS alive!!

The only " guide" that I would depend on for keeping me alive would be one in Afganistan!!

 

[toddc]

I second the poster who wants to know the name of your "guide" business so no one wastes their hard earned money on your crappy attitude!

I'm just as big a steward of wildlife and conservation as there could be, but would never consider punching someone (ESP. A sucker punch) for a decision they made in error in the heat of the moment.

I bet your the kind of know it all D-bag who bristles at any response other than yessir! Remember, most people save for a long time to have an opportunity to hunt a new animal in different country. I could only imagine realizing I had spent it with someone like yourself.

There was a house about 20% off axis of deer. Not only was it a running shot that the guy couldnt make but he was swinging straight towards a guys farm house.I screamed at the guy dont shoot and he did it anyway. I knocked him out before he could keep rolling. I had no clue what he was going to do as he already demonstrated a lack of english comprehension.
I dont care why I told him to stop whether it was safety or ethics. I would do it again.
When someone calls clear it means stop shooting.
Amazes me that I'm catching a rash of grief. I didnt state in my 1st post the whole situation but it shouldnt matter WHY I CALLED A CEASE FIRE. CEASE FIRE MEANS CEASE FIRE. I always make it clear with a hunter what it means. The guy just didnt care it wasnt heat of the moment it was screw you, I paid you so I can do what I want. OK me too.
And dont worry Im booked up for quite a while. Amazing but all of my customers gave me an attaboy.

 

[toddc]

You are so full of yourself that it is laughable. It seems to me that it is the client that keeps YOU AND YOUR BUISNESS alive!!

The only " guide" that I would depend on for keeping me alive would be one in Afganistan!!

Guides werent originally to put you on a 190" whitetail. They were to "GUIDE" you through wilderness that can take your life. From rattlesnakes to an underinflated tire we keep clients from being dead. That my friend is 1st and foremost. Second is keeping all of us alive. When a person will not cease fire and you are close enough to sock them...well its your choice.
And some customers we dont want back and never would have let come if we knew what they were like. Its just part of the business. A bad customer will put you out of business much faster than no customers.
Sorry to all I will quit posting reality and go to the customer can do anything he wants including accidentally shooting me or a cow or whatever. Is that better?

 

[thehulk]

There was a house about 20% off axis of deer. Not only was it a running shot that the guy couldnt make but he was swinging straight towards a guys farm house.I screamed at the guy dont shoot and he did it anyway. I knocked him out before he could keep rolling. I had no clue what he was going to do as he already demonstrated a lack of english comprehension.
I dont care why I told him to stop whether it was safety or ethics. I would do it again.
When someone calls clear it means stop shooting.
Amazes me that I'm catching a rash of grief. I didnt state in my 1st post the whole situation but it shouldnt matter WHY I CALLED A CEASE FIRE. CEASE FIRE MEANS CEASE FIRE. I always make it clear with a hunter what it means. The guy just didnt care it wasnt heat of the moment it was screw you, I paid you so I can do what I want. OK me too.
And dont worry Im booked up for quite a while. Amazing but all of my customers gave me an attaboy.

Assaults can be felonies or misdemeanors. The penalties for assault vary and are dependent upon several factors:

· The severity and nature of the assault
· The presence of mitigating circumstances
· Prior convictions
· Age of the victim
· If the victim was providing lawful medical or therapeutic treatment
· If the victim was a police officer

Penalties may include:

· Jail time
· Severe fines
· Probation
· Anger management classes
· Loss of right to possess firearms
· Loss of voting rights


Glad your clients gave you ataboys for breaking the law. I fail to see where you should be rewarded for such behavior, and your display of audacity by stating you would repeat the offense.

A few fries short of a happy meal.

 

[4xforfun]

Guides werent originally to put you on a 190" whitetail. They were to "GUIDE" you through wilderness that can take your life. From rattlesnakes to an underinflated tire we keep clients from being dead. That my friend is 1st and foremost. Second is keeping all of us alive. When a person will not cease fire and you are close enough to sock them...well its your choice.
And some customers we dont want back and never would have let come if we knew what they were like. Its just part of the business. A bad customer will put you out of business much faster than no customers.
Sorry to all I will quit posting reality and go to the customer can do anything he wants including accidentally shooting me or a cow or whatever. Is that better?

So...exactly...what part of "knocked him out" is the Keep him alive part??

Also.....THE FASTEST way to get put out of buisness is FELONY ASSULT!!! Try work with or around firarms with a felony conviction under your belt!! Kinda tough to get that old guide license!!