Seating depth changing?
- Thread starter Ubetcha
- Start date
Ubetcha
Well-Known Member
Sorry fellas, didn't jump off the thread. This thing took off in the last couple days and I missed getting back on.
I wish I could stay out of the rabbit hole! Things I'm finding out in this reloading endeavor is I'm in good company. I think we are really learning more about what I can live with and what I can't. We started out with basic reloading equipment and I feel like I want more precision than the tooling we are using allows.
I have learned I HATE my Lyman hand trimmer. Need a powered one. Just me, but HATE it. Time consuming and garbage. If you love it, you have more patience than me. HATE IT!
I need a new caliper. Going to get a decent Mitutoyo. Have a Hornady analog caliper now. HATE it. I like digital and want more precision. My kid and I both get different reading on the same CBTO measurements and there shouldn't be as much variation between the 2 readings we are getting. We've also changed the process to only ONE guy measuring so we don't go back and forth.
I HATE our Berry bullet puller. Going to some other style. Eventually we'll get better and not have to pull as many, but man that thing sucks.
I have TOO much ADD/OCD to leave the variables of tooling and myself to compound issues in learning. I'm going to have to get a better solution for seating bullets such as the recommended LE Wilson seater dies and an arbor press to feel better about this. I've learned there is nothing wrong with measuring every loaded round. I'd rather measure 8 times than pull another bullet! I HATE pulling bullets. Hate it.
We will likely get a mandrel for case necks too. I believe neck tension is a variable that me and the kid haven't messed with at all. The results won't get worse using a mandrel, but may get WAY better. My shooting ability probably is the biggest variable in the whole matter. I've been shooting for a long time, but only in the last 5-10 years have I focused on ME getting better. ME being consistent and doing the right thing every time has been the hardest part of this task. Reloading is ALL consistency. I'm going to start with better brass, more precise measurements (better caliper), more measurements (let my OCDness run wild), and better dies, heck maybe a better press.
10+ years ago, I'd have been plumb happy with shooting 1-1.5in groups with hunting ammo. Shoot, I used to buy Rem Core-Lokts and Federal blue box and really didn't give a lot of thought to it. Now, I'd like to know if I do my best work on the reloading bench and at the range, not just off a bench but in field shooting positions, I can practice to 1200 yards and kill animals 600 and in, in the right conditions, and not think twice. I'm not a competitor, nor a benchrest or F-class guy. I respect precision and demand accuracy and the amount of "rabbit hole" many of you go down makes me feel at least "normal" LOL. I'd much rather go deeper than not far enough in the RELOADING RABBIT HOLE. For anyone else in my shoes, you do you baby. But it will take time and money.
Now I'm going to re-read this thread 18 more times to make sure I didn't miss anything and add notes to my "Reloading S.O.P" book I've created and take serious consideration to many of the prescribed solutions. THANK YOU @ EVERYONE
Ubetcha
I wish I could stay out of the rabbit hole! Things I'm finding out in this reloading endeavor is I'm in good company. I think we are really learning more about what I can live with and what I can't. We started out with basic reloading equipment and I feel like I want more precision than the tooling we are using allows.
I have learned I HATE my Lyman hand trimmer. Need a powered one. Just me, but HATE it. Time consuming and garbage. If you love it, you have more patience than me. HATE IT!
I need a new caliper. Going to get a decent Mitutoyo. Have a Hornady analog caliper now. HATE it. I like digital and want more precision. My kid and I both get different reading on the same CBTO measurements and there shouldn't be as much variation between the 2 readings we are getting. We've also changed the process to only ONE guy measuring so we don't go back and forth.
I HATE our Berry bullet puller. Going to some other style. Eventually we'll get better and not have to pull as many, but man that thing sucks.
I have TOO much ADD/OCD to leave the variables of tooling and myself to compound issues in learning. I'm going to have to get a better solution for seating bullets such as the recommended LE Wilson seater dies and an arbor press to feel better about this. I've learned there is nothing wrong with measuring every loaded round. I'd rather measure 8 times than pull another bullet! I HATE pulling bullets. Hate it.
We will likely get a mandrel for case necks too. I believe neck tension is a variable that me and the kid haven't messed with at all. The results won't get worse using a mandrel, but may get WAY better. My shooting ability probably is the biggest variable in the whole matter. I've been shooting for a long time, but only in the last 5-10 years have I focused on ME getting better. ME being consistent and doing the right thing every time has been the hardest part of this task. Reloading is ALL consistency. I'm going to start with better brass, more precise measurements (better caliper), more measurements (let my OCDness run wild), and better dies, heck maybe a better press.
10+ years ago, I'd have been plumb happy with shooting 1-1.5in groups with hunting ammo. Shoot, I used to buy Rem Core-Lokts and Federal blue box and really didn't give a lot of thought to it. Now, I'd like to know if I do my best work on the reloading bench and at the range, not just off a bench but in field shooting positions, I can practice to 1200 yards and kill animals 600 and in, in the right conditions, and not think twice. I'm not a competitor, nor a benchrest or F-class guy. I respect precision and demand accuracy and the amount of "rabbit hole" many of you go down makes me feel at least "normal" LOL. I'd much rather go deeper than not far enough in the RELOADING RABBIT HOLE. For anyone else in my shoes, you do you baby. But it will take time and money.
Now I'm going to re-read this thread 18 more times to make sure I didn't miss anything and add notes to my "Reloading S.O.P" book I've created and take serious consideration to many of the prescribed solutions. THANK YOU @ EVERYONE
Ubetcha
Dean2
Well-Known Member
A better caliper won't give you more consistent readings and analogue is not less accurate than digital if you can see the graduations. How you use them is what creates consistency. Jaws 90 degrees to what you are measuring, measure at exactly the same place, and use the same pressure on the thumb wheel. I have Micrometers that measure to .00005 and consistency is even more important with them.
Best bullet puller by far is the Hornady press mounted system. Fast, accurate and the bullets are reusable.
You can get a power version for your Lyman that uses a battery powered drill to turn the cutter. Have used one for years. Lyman with power adaptor.
If you do lots of trimming they have a self powered version.
The same applies to using powder throwers and seating bullets. Using the exact same sequence, stroke, speed and pressure, are all critical to consistency and will impact the consistency of the outcome.
Best bullet puller by far is the Hornady press mounted system. Fast, accurate and the bullets are reusable.
You can get a power version for your Lyman that uses a battery powered drill to turn the cutter. Have used one for years. Lyman with power adaptor.
If you do lots of trimming they have a self powered version.
The same applies to using powder throwers and seating bullets. Using the exact same sequence, stroke, speed and pressure, are all critical to consistency and will impact the consistency of the outcome.
I was also bewildered in the past by slight (1-2 thousandths) variations on CBTO when seating - it happened sometimes. Obviously there are a few factors at play that could influence the outcome, as revealed by the AMP press (shown on the graphs) that work together, for example:
- contact surface between the bullet and the stem (the bigger, the better)
- inside chamfering of the case mouth
- ruggedness of the inside of the neck
- compressed loads (slight spring back effect)
These all may have a small, but measurable effect.
Thanks to watching Tim from Little Crow Gunworks and his "What REALLY Matters" video series, I made a very simple adjustment in my seating procedure, and now the cartridges are all measuring the same CBTO (within caliper's tolerance): I now forcefully move the press handle until it's full stop. As Tim put it, "no pussyfooting". That overcomes (overpowers) any slight differences on the factors listed above.
The same applies to the full length sizing procedure.
Last edited:
I do the same
Last edited:
HSmithTX
Well-Known Member
Some of you guys must LOVE loading. The powder to the sub 1/10th of a grain, the sorting of bullets, adjusting seating dies every round, etc. Nope, never ever, not this guy. I don't shoot benchrest or F-class, I shoot accurate rifles for fun and hunting, mostly fun. If you can see a small variation in group with a small change in OAL and I don't care if you are measuring BTO or COAL seat the bullet deeper, there is another seating depth deeper that will take the variation out. It might be a LOT deeper so don't be afraid to get WAY off the lands, and your .2's might turn into .3's on paper at 100 but at 600+ you will have reliable, repeatable and stable groups without all the gyrations loading the ammo and unsorted bullets. When you find this seating depth the window where it shoots will be very wide, I have seen over .020" wide length windows and it shoots them all as well as it did the 'tune' near the lands that won't tolerate .005" variation. It will tolerate a tenth or 2 of powder weight variation too usually, sometimes in a magnum you can get away with 3 or 4 tenths and won't change group or POI. Prep your brass consistently, charge your cases consistently within a tenth because that part is dead easy, seat your bullets and go shoot.
And STOP polishing your brass until it looks better than new, wipe it off, run a plastic brush through the neck a couple times and load it. I don't remember who it was but I saw that advise here first and it's one of the absolute best pieces of advise I have ever gotten, using good brass the weird what the heck fliers every once in a while just stopped. I think it was Alex Wheeler but I might be mistaken.
I just like to shoot, the loading is a necessary evil so I skip all the steps that for me don't show up on target.
And STOP polishing your brass until it looks better than new, wipe it off, run a plastic brush through the neck a couple times and load it. I don't remember who it was but I saw that advise here first and it's one of the absolute best pieces of advise I have ever gotten, using good brass the weird what the heck fliers every once in a while just stopped. I think it was Alex Wheeler but I might be mistaken.
I just like to shoot, the loading is a necessary evil so I skip all the steps that for me don't show up on target.
Agree….to an extent. Typically the folks who don't worry about that 1/10th of a grain or that .020 in seating depth or any other variance fail to realize the cumulative effect it has on accuracy…..and wonder why their gun won't shoot tiny groups. Tiny groups are all about consistency in every aspect of reloading and obviously good equipment and Shooting techniques.
Yes, you may fudge on some of those reloading steps and get away with it at short distances, but not in the long range game. My opinion anyway.
G Arlen Good
Well-Known Member
It all relates to the size of your target: Elk, deer, coyote, Prarie dog, 10 ring, or your first hole.
Jayboy
Member
If measure to the ogive, you should be right on, however if you measure the coal it could vary simply because bullet length can vary, just to check, measure the bullets length
MJN030
Well-Known Member
MJN030
Well-Known Member
Ok. You do you .
