Scope field evaluations on rokslide

[Hotmail]

That is interesting??? Athlon has a no questions asked warranty was my understanding. It is also transferable if I am not mistaken but I could be wrong. I had a Midas Tac 5-25 that came out of the box with a chip in one of the lenses. I also had a sun shade in which the entire front bell cap came off the same scope. The scope functioned as it should and held zero but the cosmetic issues were a problem. It is one of four scopes I have had to return for warranty work in my lifetime. I have two Cronus and have never had an issue. I mailed the Midas back to them with the appropriate form and got a brand new replacement back within a week, NIB with no issues, never unboxed it. It was still in the shrink wrap. Sold it and bought my second Cronus. I like the Ares ETR as well. To me their two flag ship scopes are premium scopes. The glass in the Cronus is incredible. I like the turrets as well and neither has ever lost zero or failed to track. The Athlon guys have never been anything but helpful to me. I have spoken with them on several occasions and they are alway fun to talk to and converse with on scope and shooting issues. You can usually speak to someone fairly quickly. I haven't spoken to them recently so things could have changed? I sent a S&B back for repairs and it came back in 10 days. They also are a class outfit. Had a Leupold reticle replaced, scope came back in less than two weeks, that was several years ago. I am sorry you had an issue but my experience says that is not the norm. All of them, Leupold, NF, Athlon, S&B and IOR Valada have never been anything but helpful. They are all good guys, at least the ones I have worked with.

They may have been good regarding warranty in the past but not anymore at least not in my own personal experience just recently last month. I even filed a formal complaint at the BBB website and it never got posted yet because Athlon won't even return any of the BBB's messages addressed to Athlon Optics who are working as the mediator in this case. Athlon Optics will more than likely get an F rating just like Bushnell if they keep ignoring the BBB requests for resolution in this matter though. The one I filed on ****ed consumer website has what happened in detail.

If this was just a cheap $300 scope I got such terrible customer service and lack of warranty repair or replacement I probably wouldn't have push the issue but it's in fact an $1800 scope and cheapest sale price they sell for is around $1399 new.

I will not just sit back and allow anyone else to get screwed over by Athlon and will at least warn everyone what my own first hand experience was with them. At least people have the right to know what's coming to them if they were one if the unlucky ones such as myself. I think they may in fact take care of some of their customers but not all of them.

They don't even respond even to the BBB once a formal complaint is filed so what does this tell you about Athlon Optics?

Everyone has the right to spend their hard earned money for whatever brand they like but once you get burnt by them then you will probably feel the same as I do.

I am going to just stick to Arken EP5's and EPL4's for future budget Chinese made scope purchases and Vortex Razor Gen 3s and Nightforce NX8s for premium builds at least they honor their warranty and so far had no issues with any of mine and at least Arken and Vortex even sends their customers a prepaid return shipping label if they ever need to use their warranty. In fact I just ordered 2 more NX8s early this month instead of 2 more Cronus scopes I was previously going to buy until this warranty incident. Next scopes I'm going to be buying more of are going to be more Arken EP5's and Vortex Razor Gen 3s.

 

[buzby]

You know a lot depends on if your a back country hunter or a back 40 hunter and if your dialing a lot. I've hunted leupolds on the back 40 for years. No noticeable zero shift banging around in a sxs or 4 wheeler. If you drop it or bang it hard common sense says check your zero. For a back 40 guy no big deal. If you hunt the back country or off the beaten path and your dialing then it would be a NF for me.

I think this also explains a lot of "my scope has never lost zero" claims. Most back 40 hunters wouldn't be effected by a 1/2-1 MOA shift. The majority of their hunting is well under 200yds, probably under 50. There are a lot of 'nearly' zeroed scopes out there.

 

[buzby]

They may have been good regarding warranty in the past but not anymore at least not in my own personal experience just recently last month. I even filed a formal complaint at the BBB website and it never got posted yet because Athlon won't even return any of the BBB's messages addressed to Athlon Optics who are working as the mediator in this case. Athlon Optics will more than likely get an F rating just like Bushnell if they keep ignoring the BBB requests for resolution in this matter though. The one I filed on ****ed consumer website has what happened in detail.

If this was just a cheap $300 scope I got such terrible customer service and lack of warranty repair or replacement I probably wouldn't have push the issue but it's in fact an $1800 scope and cheapest sale price they sell for is around $1399 new.

I will not just sit back and allow anyone else to get screwed over by Athlon and will at least warn everyone what my own first hand experience was with them. At least people have the right to know what's coming to them if they were one if the unlucky ones such as myself. I think they may in fact take care of some of their customers but not all of them.

They don't even respond even to the BBB once a formal complaint is filed so what does this tell you about Athlon Optics?

Everyone has the right to spend their hard earned money for whatever brand they like but once you get burnt by them then you will probably feel the same as I do.

I am going to just stick to Arken EP5's and EPL4's for future budget Chinese made scope purchases and Vortex Razor Gen 3s and Nightforce NX8s for premium builds at least they honor their warranty and so far had no issues with any of mine and at least Arken and Vortex even sends their customers a prepaid return shipping label if they ever need to use their warranty. In fact I just ordered 2 more NX8s early this month instead of 2 more Cronus scopes I was previously going to buy until this warranty incident. Next scopes I'm going to be buying more of are going to be more Arken EP5's and Vortex Razor Gen 3s.

FYI the BBB is a private company, and a scam. The whole concept is to get businesses to pay for a membership.

 

[willfrye027]

Here's an example of a home grown drop test. Scope is the new maven RS 1.2. I encourage everyone who cares to 1) establish a real zero 2) keep track of your actual zero between hunting/shooting trips 3) test your equipment for durability

The shooting setup: property is getting sold so my bench and usual target is gone. This will have to do for now. This is a tikka with a SPR chambered brux in 25 creedmoor. Stock is an alterra that they bedded for me. Sportsmatch t084 rings with 50in/lb on bases and 25in/lb on the rings.

Shot a bore sight, adjusted based on the reticle, then shot this group and set the turrets to zero. More shots would be ideal, but pretty confident in the zero. For reference this gun with this load shoots .8-1.2" 10 shot groups. Mostly gets shot at steel and animals.

Was not set up to video. Here's the drop setup. 1/2 thick foam mat on top of recently plowed soil. Still fairly hard which made me nervous. I did 3x drops on top, left, right sides all in a row. Height ranged from 28-32". Chickened out on the 36" because the turrets were cutting into the mat; it seemed pretty rough lots of bouncing and vibration noises. The elevation turret slipped a half mil during the drops. Set it back to zero.

First shot. Couldn't see it so I ran up to the target to see and took a picture.

Shot 4 more. Heart rate was up from all the movement. Starting to get a bit of mirage off my barrel. Rest is not as solid as it could be but..

Seems to have held zero. Shots are all within the expected cone for this gun/load.


Will leave this scope on and keep track over time.

Very happy with the reticle, glass, and ergonomics of the scope. Glass is very easy to get behind. It might be my favorite reticle I've used. The floating dot is nice, reticle is clean. Totally useable on low and high power. I need to spend more time behind it but so far there is nothing at all to complain about.

 

[Mike Matteson]

You know a lot depends on if your a back country hunter or a back 40 hunter and if your dialing a lot. I've hunted leupolds on the back 40 for years. No noticeable zero shift banging around in a sxs or 4 wheeler. If you drop it or bang it hard common sense says check your zero. For a back 40 guy no big deal. If you hunt the back country or off the beaten path and your dialing then it would be a NF for me.

Took out my 338WM with a 2 x 8 Leupold to Africa in 2018. Fired it a total of 7 times there. 3 to check the zero and 4 for 4 animals taken. I hadn't used it until just a while back. Took it to the range and rechecked the zero again. Dead on! So it travel overseas and across the country here. If I am flying I alway worry about my scopes when traveling. Alway check them too. I have nocked over a rifle and move the zero on it. Had to re-zero it. Most of my scopes are Leupold. Have use or own a leupoid from the 70's. Only one wouldn't hold it's zero and sent it back in to get repaired. FREE! I generally hold my shots to 500yds or less. I know where to hold the scope at for the different ranges. Don't need the highend scope to do the work.
I am going to get a NF scope but in 3 x 16 or 18 powder area. I am going to extend my range out to about 700yds on P dogs. The other is I don't like the lost of field of view in very high powder scopes.
Beside it's only money!

 

[JustMe2]

Real question, how many times have you slipped and fallen down on a hunt?

Why not start a poll to see how many times members have dropped or banged their rifles during a hunt and had their zeros shift? It's only happened twice in my 65 years of hunting. I've used Tasco, Weaver Shepherd, Leupold, Vortex, Bushnel, Revic, etc. scopes and only lost my zero twice. You have to wonder if some of these guys don't use their rifles to clear brush away or as a climbing stick while hunting.

I also agree a sample size of one means nothing except how one scope out of the thousands sold performed. I believe Leupold, Vortex, etc. perform extensive shock tests during development and during production. I guess maybe they are all liars?

I also think the new trend to constantly dial the turrets up and down for range adds weakness to modern scopes since the internals must be made loose enough to move constantly and smoothly. Using holdover reticles without "target turrets" instead of dialing would most probably allow manufacturers to design more robust scopes for those who like to rough handle their firearms. Also add the newest trend/demand to make new scopes lighter and lighter. Something has to be compromised during the development to meet these new demands.

 

[manitou]

Why not start a poll to see how many times members have dropped or banged their rifles during a hunt and had their zeros shift? It's only happened twice in my 65 years of hunting. I've used Tasco, Weaver Shepherd, Leupold, Vortex, Bushnel, Revic, etc. scopes and only lost my zero twice. You have to wonder if some of these guys don't use their rifles to clear brush away or as a climbing stick while hunting.

I also agree a sample size of one means nothing except how one scope out of the thousands sold performed. I believe Leupold, Vortex, etc. perform extensive shock tests during development and during production. I guess maybe they are all liars?

I also think the new trend to constantly dial the turrets up and down for range adds weakness to modern scopes since the internals must be made loose enough to move constantly and smoothly. Using holdover reticles without "target turrets" instead of dialing would most probably allow manufacturers to design more robust scopes for those who like to rough handle their firearms. Also add the newest trend/demand is to make new scopes lighter and lighter. Something has to be compromised during the development to meet these new demands.

I have had many scopes change zero just sitting in storage. Many makes.

If a guy is used to 11/2" groups and hunts at 120 yards... well... he probably isn't noticing a zero shift.

For those of us that are accuracy fenatics, hunt long range and actually check our zeroes... I would bet it has happened to 100% of us, unless he started out with one of the few scopes that don't move and that is all he has owned.

There isn't a man alive that can convince me he has hunted decades without a scope shifting.

 

[buzby]

Why not start a poll to see how many times members have dropped or banged their rifles during a hunt and had their zeros shift? It's only happened twice in my 65 years of hunting. I've used Tasco, Weaver Shepherd, Leupold, Vortex, Bushnel, Revic, etc. scopes and only lost my zero twice. You have to wonder if some of these guys don't use their rifles to clear brush away or as a climbing stick while hunting.

I also agree a sample size of one means nothing except how one scope out of the thousands sold performed. I believe Leupold, Vortex, etc. perform extensive shock tests during development and during production. I guess maybe they are all liars?

I also think the new trend to constantly dial the turrets up and down for range adds weakness to modern scopes since the internals must be made loose enough to move constantly and smoothly. Using holdover reticles without "target turrets" instead of dialing would most probably allow manufacturers to design more robust scopes for those who like to rough handle their firearms. Also add the newest trend/demand is to make new scopes lighter and lighter. Something has to be compromised during the development to meet these new demands.

I've seen a lot of peoples "zero" be off by 1/2-1" at 100yds, and claim it's "still zeroed." So when people say they've never lost zero, they have, and not known it.

If your rifle losses zero once in X number of years, but it's 5miles into the back country in the middle of your hunt, it's a pretty big issue. It's not a matter of people rifles often losing zero. It's a matter of someone not wanting it to happen, ever.

Dialing and retain zero is more of a challenge to the scope, than one that is never dialed, I agree. Good news, you don't have to compromise. There are scopes than can be dialed, and retain zero. Often much more reliably than scopes that are never dialed.

 

[orkan]

Uh oh... the dude said the quiet part out loud. ^

People can't shoot.




... and he's right, by the way. I could throw a thousand dollar bill on the ground next to a shooter and say "that's yours if you hit 20 of those 1/2" dots down there at 100yds with 20 shots," and my money would be pretty safe.



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[cajun]

You have to consider the normal load dispersion and the sample size. If I shoot ten rounds and the dispersion is 1 moa and you fire one round to check the zero what does that tell you? You may shoot another one and maybe it's outside of 1 moa.

 

[buzby]

A guy who back country hunts, a **** load, wants a scope that will not loose zero, no matter what happens in the middle of his hunt. He runs some tests, shares his results.

I amazed at how many people get offended, think it's absurd, and he's asking too much. Then try and convince everyone, with zero data offered, that their scopes are as reliable as anyone could ever need.

 

[JustMe2]

Hate to admit it but just yesterday evening going to my stand in my golf cart my rifle slid off as I was turning around. VX6HD. Didn't see anything thank goodness. Checked zero today and it was almost 7 inches high. Clover leaf 3 shots but high!!! Rezeroed and shot 3 shot groups at 150, 200, and 250. All good. Dialed back to 100 and dead on. Windage never changed. Had a Nightforce one time but just hated the retical. Way to busy for me but this definitely got thinking NF or Trig

How do you know the scope caused your error? It could be your scope moved in your rings or the rings moved on your picatinny, etc.

 

[Bob Wright]

Quick trig work shows a .008° angle shift at 100 yards = .5" at 100 yards.
To accomplish that .008° shift at the scope, rings, bases or pic rail, the shift needs to be .0007" over 5" of the attachment points- anywhere. That does not include the scope internals getting jarred.
Dropping something onto a hard surface is the same as hitting it with a hammer (controlled).
So if there is .0007 clearance in screws/holes (there is) or pic rail to ring mounting (there is) or rings to scope tube (usually is) and scope cap screws (there is), that is a lot of opportunity to move something attaching the scope to receiver. The internals of the scope moving adds to that shift.
Food for thought.

 

[Paladin300]

I have had many scopes change zero just sitting in storage. Many makes.

If a guy is used to 11/2" groups and hunts at 120 yards... well... he probably isn't noticing a zero shift.

For those of us that are accuracy fenatics, hunt long range and actually check our zeroes... I would bet it has happened to 100% of us, unless he started out with one of the few scopes that don't move and that is all he has owned.

There isn't a man alive that can convince me he has hunted decades without a scope shifting.

40 years, got a safe full! Probably owned not one or two but 200 or more guns and scopes dropped several including one from a tree stand and another off a concrete shooting bench on to a concrete floor, had another, that I can remember fall, fall from a table in the kitchen. None of the afore mentioned scopes lost there zero, though the one that fell from the bench received a rather nice beauty mark. As state earlier I can only remember 4 or five that lost there zero and they all had mechanical failures. As long as they were in working order they held. Never had one lose it in the safe collecting dust. Fallen hunting more than I can remember but never enough to damage a gun. I think this argument is factious at best. And for the record I do most of my shooting when not hunting beyond 1000 yards. Inside of that is usually a give me on an moa target, group sizes are usually in the half moa range. Your form matters a whole lot more than your equipment. I own, have owned and shoot NF, SB, Athlon, Zeiss, Leupold, IOR Valdada, etc, no secret I like S&B and Leupold for hunting. All of the above have served me well. I would say my scope failure rate over my lifetime is about 4%?. If you are losing zero in the closet??? You need to buy better rings. We all want our stuff to work and again most of it does for it intended purpose. I think this horse has been about bet to death. But don't let those with real world experience stand in your way. Their is some crap out their no doubt. But not near as much as this post would have us believe, my experience not just my opinion says differently.