Schmitt & Bender feedback

[CRaTxn]

Its about our minds eye not our real eyes. How we want to be seen not how we see through the scope. If we were really pure longrange hunting realists that wanted results, we would buy adequate gear and spend all that extra on ammo, training and ancillary equipment like a good G7 BR2 or Kestrel 5700 Elite. A lot of "hunters" spend their time working to afford gear instead of taking courses to improve themselves!
Beware the man with one gun and one good looking wife.

 

[DJ Fergus]

I've heard that statement before too. I think a hunter/shooter should buy what he feels he can best afford, but if for Long Range it's worth investing a little more to get good reliability. I do think that is one thing the Leupolds offer. The only suprising thing to me about the statement is in regard to the Browning rifle. I think the Eclipse is one of the X-bolt models. I've have an X-bolt and it shoots better than any other gun I've owned out of the box. I've never owned a custom gun but have owned, Winchesters, Savages, Remington's and other factory rifles and it's been the best of them all for accuracy and a smooth auction. All of them however would shoot better than 1.5 MOA though it took some work with some of them to get there but nothing radical. Reloading also helps a lot in the accuracy department.
If 1.5 MOA was the best any gun of mine could get it probably would have to go unless it was meant to be a short range gun in the first place, like a muzzle loader or one of the new straight wall rifles.

It was an a-bolt model. I've had a few xbolts myself and they shot pretty good. But the fellow I spoke of had not figured everything out yet. The gun he had may have very well shot better if he had done some more experimenting with ammo and he didn't reload. If I ever tried to offer advice to him he ended up telling me how everything should work, so he assumed he knew everything already and I didn't try to offer much more advice to him after all that.

 

[dfanonymous]

I have a couple of IOR Valdada (4-14x50 30MM and 3-18x42 35 MM, both illuminated in the ~$1600-$2000 range) that are very good, optical clarity and trackability are awesome but are heavy. Their Crusader and Recon G2s are also in my wish list.







It is always nice to have plenty of choices to choose from. Cheers!

I got the bigger brother g2 recon. They are some good scopes

I was using a PM 2 with this tracking test. You can see 0-10 moa it's tracking great. Then seems to track a touch high at 11-12 moa, and at 16.25 to 16.75 moa at least .6-.7 moa of over-travel on the Grizzly and the wolf.

The Bison and the Sheep at 22-23 moa back to perfect. These scenarios are also dialing windage in them.

It's consistent and needs to be shot a bunch more but so far has been doing great compared to some other scopes with have tried. I am not going to rule out shooter error/temperate until we can run a few more tests with it.

chances are your test and results was/are erroneous. Even if it was the case, call em up, send it in , and you either get a new scope or the fix your errector or whatever is the case back to the standard of .1% error

 

[dfanonymous]

My problem with S&Bender is the 2 year warranty. Lots just as good glass with a forever warranty...

Doubt that cheaper scopes with a forever warranty are as good of glass and do you have a s&B? You would know that every scope has a different warranty. mine on the 5-25X56 is 30 years. I think the standard EU legal requirement is 2 years, that's why it's listed that way.

 

[Pmacc60]

djfergus, to answer your question yes there is a distinct advantage with the S&B . Schmidt and Bender make the best scope I have ever used. To be up front I haven't used all the scopes that have been listed but I have use quite a few and S&B are my favorite. That all being said are thier others that would work for me well , heck yeah! Many of the high end scopes are way to much for my shooting needs . I can't even use my iPhone to its potential !! In truth I'm not going to go a shoot competing at 1000+'yards or do any swat work but if you ask me to put the best rifle/scope combination together and expense is no concern there would be a S&B on top of my rig. They may not be worth every dime you pay for them but they are worth most of the dimes!

 

[JTComfort]

I've owned Zeiss, Leupold, sighton, Three Nikon FX1000, etc. Is there and advantage with a S&B over a high end Japan Light Optical Works made scope. Comparing to something like a Japanese L.O.W. ( razor, Cronus , or L.O.W. Bushnell etc...)

Fergus - I would offer that I've owned a range of scopes in my life. For a time, I was content with my Vortex PTS 4-16. I bought a Leica 2-10 and Leica binos for an elk hunt and saw the light. I then bought a SB PMII for my long range rig. Simply, it is a superior tool in every way. Positive and confidence inspiring in it's operation, accurate in tracking, clear as a bell, reasonably weighted and incredibly durable. Will I ever test it to its operational envelope, no. I can confidently tell my son that he's welcome to try when it's his. After 3 years running the PMII for long range and PRS, I bought a SB 3-12x42 Klassik for my .300WM mountian rifle as well. Go for it.

 

[floyd kittrell]

If you've already made up your mind ,why ask a question? It is moot.

 

[JTComfort]

Doubt that cheaper scopes with a forever warranty are as good of glass and do you have a s&B? You would know that every scope has a different warranty. mine on the 5-25X56 is 30 years. I think the standard EU legal requirement is 2 years, that's why it's listed that way.

Yes, you can send it in for a free exam and tune up every ten years for 20 years. **** Swiss watches don't offer that service but you never hear anyone question the value when buying a Rolex or an Omega against a Timex or Casio.

 

[dfanonymous]

Yes, you can send it in for a free exam and tune up every ten years for 20 years. ---- Swiss watches don't offer that service but you never hear anyone question the value when buying a Rolex or an Omega against a Timex or Casio.

But I love Casio g-shocks

 

[DocB]

I've owned Zeiss, Leupold, sighton, Three Nikon FX1000, etc. Is there and advantage with a S&B over a high end Japan Light Optical Works made scope. Comparing to something like a Japanese L.O.W. ( razor, Cronus , or L.O.W. Bushnell etc...)

So, I had the same question years ago. I was shooting the S&B with the H58 (before the H59 came out). S&B was incredible & with the Horus H58 anything out to 1850m with 7.62 or 300WM was DRT 1st shot. I came home & wanted an ELR scope but the S&B I was using was out of my budget. I did serious research, checked lots of optics and settled on the Horus Falcon 5-20x50 30mm with the incredible H37 reticle. Japanese glass, steel tube, incredible optics, every bit as incredible as the S&B I had been using. So if your question is do you have to go boutique Deutsche for a great scope, my answer would be nope. But remember what the ole sage Broz said, "Buy once" or words to that effect. My second choice was US Optics.
DocB
https://www.usoptics.com

 

[FIGJAM]

In all seriousness, I've looked through my buddies SB PMii and his Kahles 624i. They are nice scopes. You know they'll hold zero and be repeatable. But so is my SWFA and it's $2300 cheaper. I think the sweet spot for the current scope market is the $1k-$1.5k market. The SHV, Cronus, PSTs, Primary Arms Platinum, SWFA HDs, etc. are the best bang for the buck. The higher end scopes you start seeing diminishing returns. It's because scope technology is getting so advanced for all those awesome little features you have to start paying a ton to get them.

I agree - you can get a ton of scope for $1000-$1500. The law of diminishing marginal returns definitely applies to optics.

 

[Litehiker]

Notwithstanding the Marine Corps selection the S&B PM II over all other scopes, I feel that others WiTH ED glass and solid construction are so close in quality that S&B's prices are just not worth it.

For example the Bushnell XRS II with ED glass and revised turrets is an exceptional buy at the $2,200. or so street price. The Vortex AMG or Nightforce ATACR scopes are both viable alternatives as well.

To me ED glass is ED glass to even the best human vision. Coatings are often more "where it's at" than the ED glass. And the turret reliability and accuracy are also highly important.
The above mentioned scopes can "shoot a square" or pass a Tall Target Test with flying colors. Their dawn and dusk resolution are, if not the equal of S&B, are hair-splitting close.

And other European scopes from Leica and Zeiss as well as America's top Leupold scopes should be considered.

Eric B.

 

[JTComfort]

But I love Casio g-shocks

And I was an Omega fan until I screwed one up ($$$) forgetting to remove it before a match - I wear my watch on my right hand. Ooops.

 

[hangfire]

I've owned a lot of scopes over the years and over time things change. I used to love Leopold's but even the most ardent fan has to admit they lost the plot around the time of the VX111. Zeiss went the same way with the duralyt. I've noticed recently that the cheaper end of the Vortex range appears to have lost some optical quality although I still love the Razor. IOR produced superb value for money scopes but a few of their latest offerings are not up to scratch. Most of my rifles now mount S&B PM11's superb optics, tracking and reliability, the overall package is unbeatable and over the many years I have used S&B there has never been a change in quality