Rifles in the rain *important*

[elkaholic]

I am submitting this in hopes that I might spare someone the frustration that I had this fall during the late rifle season for A Tag in north Idaho.

I have a 6.5 SS that was literally shooting .0's on a good day with the 143 ELDX. I had practiced out to 1300 yards where I was able to shoot 1/2 moa in good conditions. Needless to say, I was extremely confident and ready to bust a bull in a great spot that my cousin and I had discovered this fall.

During our 5 day hunt, we saw animals every single day even though the conditions were terrible. We had the wettest Oct. on record and it rained at least a part of every day that we were there. Everything, including the rifles, was saturated the entire time.

PUBLISHER'S EDIT This has become a very long thread. Reading the entire thread will be productive for you but this is so important to the LRH community that I don't want you to miss the most important parts.

Later in this thread there is reference to a test done by Sierra Bullets demonstrating a 3 moa error at 200 yards caused by a wet bore. That is 6 inches.

That part is right HERE.

Now to the meat of the situation, or as it ended up, "the lack of meat"!
The 4th day of the hunt, we spotted a NICE 300+ bull across the canyon. He disappeared temporarily which gave me time to get set up with my bipod and rear rest. It was dead solid! The bull soon reappeared at 513 yards standing broadside in a small opening. I placed the crosshairs on the back edge of the shoulder at mid height and squeezed the trigger. The bull moved downhill 10 yards. and stopped again broadside. He did not appear to be hit, but this is not that unusual over the 30 some bulls that I have killed at distance. Before I could get off another shot, he stepped forward out of site and did not reappear. I was still sure that I would go over there and find him, even though he acted totally unaffected by the shot.
We carefully marked the spot, and worked our way around the canyon to the spot where the bull stood. I was able to find the tracks in the soft ground, and there was NO evidence of being hit! It appeared that he simply walked off into the timber. I was completely puzzled, and VERY frustrated over what had happened!

The next day when we were packing up to leave, my cousin wanted me to mount a scope on a rifle and sight it for another hunt he was doing. I had brought the tools that I needed so we proceeded to do so. After we got his rifle sighted, I decided to take a shot with my SS to see if the p o i had changed. I was surprised to see it hit high right, so I took another shot, and then yet another. My group at 100 yards measured over 3". UNREAL! When I got home, I gave all the rifles a thorough cleaning, and especially the 6.5 SS. I did find a small carbon ring and a lot of surface corrosion from the water and burned powder mixture. After soaking over night in Kroil, I finished cleaning until I could find no fouling anywhere. I treated the bore again with HBN and off to the range. I fired 3 shots with HBN coated bullets to settle things back in, and then fired a 3 shot group The poi was back exactly where it should be and the group measured in the .2's! I had decided that the water in the barrel; possibly in conjunction with the fouling, had caused the problem. Now to the confirmation:
My buddy called me this morning and told me about an article he had just read in the Nov. 2015 edition of outdoor life. It was written by a ballistics tech for Sierra who had a similar experience on an antelope hunt in Mt. (I believe)? I have not personally read the article yet, but he described sneaking on an antelope and missing completely at, I believe, 100 and some yards? The conditions were very wet at the time. He concluded that something was out of whack so he shot his rifle for group and was over 6 inches at 100 yards!! When cleaned and dried, the rifle went back to near moa. He could not believe the results but long story short, he went home and soaked the barrel in water and the group opened back up!
I have NO DOUBT that my barrel was full of moisture when I missed the elk because you could not keep it dry. Also what is interesting to me is that the 3 shot group was all over, so it must have some affect for more than just one shot! Maybe the interaction with burned powder or the carbon ring affect? The rifle was shooting bugholes before the hunt, and again after the cleaning.

I would be interested to hear from some of you who may have had a similar experience or some info on this..........thanks!.........Rich

 

[toddc]

Makes complete sense that any fouling would cause issues SOAKED versus DRY. I haven't had any experience exactly like yours but over the years I have always had trouble in conditions markedly different from average. Of course you chalk that up to ballistic issues due to air density or POI shift due to the stock, maybe this is also an issue we haven't nailed down yet.
I always try to hunt with a perfectly clean barrel with as few foulers as required to get the gun to settle down. Maybe this has helped.

 

[elkaholic]

Makes complete sense that any fouling would cause issues SOAKED versus DRY. I haven't had any experience exactly like yours but over the years I have always had trouble in conditions markedly different from average. Of course you chalk that up to ballistic issues due to air density or POI shift due to the stock, maybe this is also an issue we haven't nailed down yet.
I always try to hunt with a perfectly clean barrel with as few foulers as required to get the gun to settle down. Maybe this has helped.

My system is clean thoroughly ahead of final sighting in before the hunt so the barrel is fouled, but not overly so. This kind of group was FAR outside anything this rifle has ever done! Thanks Todd.......Rich

 

[toddc]

What powder? I would figure Retumbo or 869 would make it worse than Varget for example. Might be a neat test.

 

[elkaholic]

what powder? I would figure retumbo or 869 would make it worse than varget for example. Might be a neat test.

rl26

 

[toddc]

rl26

Always hear about TEMP STABILITY. Maybe MOISTURE STABILITY is an issue as well? Even without fouling issues a powder COULD react badly to extremely moist conditions. Even a totally sealed round might even be able to sweat or transfer moisture in bad enough conditions, temp swings with high moisture, who knows?
I have always been very cautious in conditions like that, light isn't right, apps seem to struggle when the conditions are that far from average, guns don't act right, stocks, scopes, everything is under stress in conditions like that. A lot of those effects can be cumulative.

 

[Plinker147]

In bad conditions such as what your talking about I put a piece of electric tape over the barrel. You can shoot through it with out a problem ( made me real nervous first time I did it). I generally take it off before I shoot if there is time. It keeps moisture out, not sure if it would make a difference when its super saturated like your conditions. Where I hunt dust is more likely that moisture so I haven't done that much. But if I'm ever in that situation I think I will run a dry patch down the barrel each morning. Thanks for the info.

 

[Capt RB]

Tapeing the barrel closed has been my procedure for hunting season since the early 80's. Doesn't matter what weather. I would try that at the range before you line up a shot on a live animal though

 

[bigngreen]

A caution about tape in rain, if your stalking or carrying your rifle in a muzzle down situation water goes into your action and down, you could cause a more serious situation!

 

[elkaholic]

I am pretty sure that with all the rain we were experiencing, taping the muzzle probably would not have helped much, but I have heard of doing that. I think just the condensation alone would have been bad enough.

 

[toddc]

A caution about tape in rain, if your stalking or carrying your rifle in a muzzle down situation water goes into your action and down, you could cause a more serious situation!

Ouch. BOOM.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Maybe try stretching a ballon over the barrel when carrying it muzzle up. I've heard of people doing it but I'd try some range shot before an animal to make sure of no poi shift.

 

[Capt RB]

I've carried my rifle muzzle down and slung muzzle down for more than 35 years in rain & snow without issue. I fell out of a canoe in 1986 trying to shoot really big buck. I got pulled back in I knelt down and killed him I know that rifle had to have some water in it. Many an Ak guide and hunter has a taped muzzle. In your situation Rich it may or may not have done enough idk.

 

[elkaholic]

I've carried my rifle muzzle down and slung muzzle down for more than 35 years in rain & snow without issue. I fell out of a canoe in 1986 trying to shoot really big buck. I got pulled back in I knelt down and killed him I know that rifle had to have some water in it. Many an Ak guide and hunter has a taped muzzle. In your situation Rich it may or may not have done enough idk.

Here is my main concern! Most game is shot at relatively short ranges, and it may be that this happens a LOT more than people realize but since the game was not missed; they never knew it. I think it could be a MUCH greater problem for most of the forum members than the average hunter........Rich