wilkup
Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing the interesting situation. Sorry about the hunt, Rich.
Rifles in the rain *important*
- Thread starter elkaholic
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Thats a bummer on the hunt as hard as it is these days to get on them after the wolf presence.As said I have taped my barrel since the 80's and no problem.I use to shoulder carry,but front carry last 10-15.I shot a rock out hunting this year and missed about my wind hold ,6'' at 980 rifle tapped.Also a shame because with your rifle shooting like that 500 is a chip shot.When im at that range and plus I usually roll em but thats my 30+ years of packing a 338.Ive had it so wet I couldnt see threw my scope,AK gets real wet also.Well he'll just be bigger next year .
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2001
- Messages
- 7,488
This is one of the most important new threads in a long time. Thanks much!
I tape my muzzle. Bigngreen...interesting thought, though I don't generally carry with muzzle down.
Also I have never tested poi changes when cold weather condensation occurs but mentioned it to someone on a hunt as recently as last month.
I tape my muzzle. Bigngreen...interesting thought, though I don't generally carry with muzzle down.
Also I have never tested poi changes when cold weather condensation occurs but mentioned it to someone on a hunt as recently as last month.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Thx Len. It sure was an eye opener to me!.....Rich
Here in Alaska it rains heavily during moose season, more than any time throughout the year, my solution is doctors examination latex gloves, I just slide one of the fingers on, yep middle finger first.... attach a rubber band back past the muzzle brake by wrapping enough times to make it stay on but not super tight, if a shooting situation arises all I do is grab the gloved end of the barrel and yank it back pulling through the glove finger past the muzzle brake and leave attached to barrel, does not change point of impact out to 450 yards that I know of, yes that was a kill shot on a large bull moose with a 338 Edge a number of years ago in an extremely heavy rain week, if no shot then you can pull it back and use one of the other four fingers .... I have shot moose in field conditions several times this way with rifles equipped with and without a muzzle brake, but never with glove over muzzle, do not know if it will affect poi at long range
Kind of relating to the weather.Few spots I have road access I took pictures and or drew a picture with landmarks and range.One spot is at 6000 ' and foggy or snowing and even my Terrapin wont range,it handle the rain a little better.Ranged with it to 600 y when my Lieca would only get 100.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
We have gotten some ideas on how to keep the water out, which helps, but I was hoping for some in depth discussion on just exactly WHAT takes place when the water is present (which it will be)! I need someone a LOT smarter than me to explain some things. Is it a change in bore diameter causing issues? Is the diameter an effect of water, or water plus deposits? Is there a chemical reaction that takes place between the water and other chemicals present? Does it cause expansion in a slight carbon ring that may be present in the throat causing problems? How much can pressure be raised? Why does the first shot not clean everything out and get the poi back to zero? These things, and other possibilities, are what I would like to get a handle on..........Rich
catamountsierra
Well-Known Member
I'll admit right off that this is just a guess, and I am not sure how one would test it. My hypothesis is that the humidity/water getting in the barrel may be causing the carbon fouling to swell slightly. I know from working with carbon filters for for water treatment that the dry carbon swells when it absorbs water, and then will shrink when it dries out. It also holds onto water pretty well, which might explain why the first shot doesn't clear it back out. Working from this, if the carbon fouling isn't perfectly even in the bore, different parts of the bore might be more affected than others, effectively creating a rough bore. Cleaning all the carbon out and replacing it with new dry carbon fouling would reset it. Like I said, just a hypothesis, and I can't think of a way to check it, though maybe with a real good bore scope and look for greater roughness in the carbon fouling? Maybe someone who knows a lot more can chip in.
Sorry about the hunt, but there is always next year. Hopefully we can all figure this out, or at least how to prevent it.
Sorry about the hunt, but there is always next year. Hopefully we can all figure this out, or at least how to prevent it.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
The swelling of the carbon would kind of make sense. That is why I thought the small carbon ring that was present in the throat may have been the culprit. It was obviously there before the hunt but was not a factor until it swelled?.........Rich
oldfortyfiveauto
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2011
- Messages
- 393
I did a little bit of testing a couple years ago with my old Savage 270 Win. with and without a taped muzzle. At 200yds I could not detect a difference in POI or group size. No rain, but was cold prior to a hunt. The only real issue was me 
I've always taped my muzzle with 3M electrical tape. 2 layers over the bore and one around the diameter to secure the 4 ends. It's too light to affect barrel harmonics and it blows off before the bullet makes contact, in my opinion. If I have plenty of time I'll remove before the shot, but only so I can reuse the tape. I tape to keep out debris and foreign objects as much as water. That's where I'd start, because it's so simple and much easier than the answers to the many other bore affecting possibilities.
My speculation is that after your first shot, the bore itself is no longer affecting POI. if the chamber is still wet, you'll experience greater bolt thrust, and that could affect POIs. The chamber will remain wet, and the shells in the mag are also apt to be wet when chambered. I suggest shooting a group with water wetted cartridges. Your bolt may get sticky if you're running ragged edge pressures with a dry chamber and dry cartridges. But it shouldn't be any different than the shot at the bull.
Can't think of anything else on a rifle with a free floated barrel properly bedded in a synthetic stock, at least after the first shot. Wood stocks can be very problematic wet/soaked versus dry. Even when free floated, I've had wet wooden stocks warp until they contact the barrel and destroy my sight-in POIs. That sucks... When it happens during a hunt.
This possibility hasn't been field tested/proven. But I doubt competitive shooters like to chamber a round with a wetted chamber after they've zeroed on a dry chamber.
My speculation is that after your first shot, the bore itself is no longer affecting POI. if the chamber is still wet, you'll experience greater bolt thrust, and that could affect POIs. The chamber will remain wet, and the shells in the mag are also apt to be wet when chambered. I suggest shooting a group with water wetted cartridges. Your bolt may get sticky if you're running ragged edge pressures with a dry chamber and dry cartridges. But it shouldn't be any different than the shot at the bull.
Can't think of anything else on a rifle with a free floated barrel properly bedded in a synthetic stock, at least after the first shot. Wood stocks can be very problematic wet/soaked versus dry. Even when free floated, I've had wet wooden stocks warp until they contact the barrel and destroy my sight-in POIs. That sucks... When it happens during a hunt.
This possibility hasn't been field tested/proven. But I doubt competitive shooters like to chamber a round with a wetted chamber after they've zeroed on a dry chamber.
