Reloading questions on 280AI and 270WSM

[drags]

So ya just checked where the lands are again:
I would load them so they would fit the magazine and see how they shoot my guess is they would shoot very well. Also you don't want hunting loads to be in the rifling or touching because of a stuck bullet in the barrel.
Joe

This is a Barnes TSX (the only bullet I have lying around) that I gently put in the shell then closed the bolt and took it out, so that is right against the lands.

The shell next to it is a factory precision hunter. As you can see the bullet against the lands would not fit in the magazine.

 

[Vortex!]

How are the Hammers with jump?

Hammers love to have a bit of jump.

 

[lightshooter]

I'm with you on the Hodgdon powders. I've been using them exclusively for a long time, and prefer them above the other manufacturers' powders due to the temperature stability. I have a table I printed from a recent thread on this forum, and here's what it shows ( in fps/degree F of temperature change ) for the three you mentioned :

H-4350 - 0.16 ( fps/degree F of temperature change )
H-4831 - 0.36 ( old version )
H-4831SC - 0.08 ( !!!! )
Varget - 0.13

RL 19 checked in with 1.18; RL 22 - 1.16. These two powders are the reason I've been using H-4350 for all these years. I had a problem with the 30-06 using RL 19 using loads I had developed at 70 degrees, when I went on a hunt on a really hot day. Bad time to find out about temperature sensitivity !!!! I did some testing and found that velocity readings with both Reloader powders varied quite a bit between 60 degrees and 100. I didn't test at cold temperatures, so I can't say anything about that.

I would encourage the guy who started this thread to look into this further, since he mentioned temperature sensitivity in his initial post. On the same chart, which also shows burning rates relative to each other, H-4831 and RL-19 are side-by-side. I would try the Hodgdon powder first in the two cartridges he mentioned, and if I needed something different, it would probably be something a bit slower - like H-1000, which varied by 0.21fps/degree. ( RL 25, at the same burn rate, showed 1.59 for comparison.)

I don't know where this table came from, but it is definitely worth looking into. Lots of guys on this forum could tell you better than I can about this temperature sensitivity issue. The information is out there. These guys have tested EVERYTHING you can imagine. This forum is the best source of information like this that I have found.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2016/06/19/powder-temp-stability-hodgdon-extreme-vs-imr-enduron/
This article they test H Extreme powder against the IMR Enduron powders but not the Reloader series, but does mention them in a paragraph and states a lot of people use them because they just get a bit more speed. Personally I don't got rid my rifles. Is rather have a bit more barrel life. That being said I do pick a node near max load but I don't go over anymore. My target rifle I do shoot quite a bit and burned out a barrel in a year.

 

[BigSwede]

apologies for not reading the string ... in a hurry but have a sec. For me R-19 works well for both the280AI and the 270wsm. Can be a touch temp sensitive in the 280ai up around 58 grains (pretty high pressures in the rem700 I used with 168 velds). 140 accubonds were a staple as well as the 168 vlds for excellent accuracy. Now the tikka package you'll be hard pressed to "not" find a great load for. Most of them shoot very well out of the box. If you start with 130or 140 accubonds in that with R-19 in the63 grain range you will likely stop there. Seat em in the magazine comfortably and run em.

 

[Blacktail63]

I ran simulations on Quickload for your cartridges and bullets your using and came up with these common powders. There are more but these gave the best speeds. In order RL26,V560, IMR7828SC, Magpro and RL22. When trying to utilize one powder for both rifles you may have to give up a little accuracy or speed on one or both to accomplish this. I'd give up speed first. That's what they have range finders and ballistic software for. As for starting reloading, the best advice I can give you is get a Hornady or Nosler reloading manual and learn/memorize the safety and reloading sections. That'll get you going and keep you from hurting yourself or others. For a starting OAL on a hunting rifle I use mag length to start, verifying that length is not jamming the lands. Find the powder charge that seems to want to group and the work backwards from the mag length. I've done this for thousands of loads and it is the easiest and simplest way for shooters new to reloading. You certainly can do it with other methods and I do but I've taught many people how to reload and they all still have all their digits and eyeballs! Good luck and let us know how you do.

 

[wv270wsm]

I too have been using rl 19 in my 270 wsm since I got mine some 20 years ago. It shoots the best with a stout dose of it and a 130 gr Hornady sst. I like that load a lot the deer do not however lol.
As for the 280 ai , never messed with one of them but I have loaded and shot a 280 quite a bit a few years back . It shot best with 140 noslers ballistic tips . Don't remember what powder but we could shoot broom sage stalks with it at 100 yards consistently. And the deer didn't like it either.

 

[Lrencore]

I"ve had great success with H 4350 and 150 grain hornady SST for the 270 WSM. have hunted and shot in big temp difference i can always count on this for my WSM.

 

[nicholasjohn]

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2016/06/19/powder-temp-stability-hodgdon-extreme-vs-imr-enduron/
This article they test H Extreme powder against the IMR Enduron powders but not the Reloader series, but does mention them in a paragraph and states a lot of people use them because they just get a bit more speed. Personally I don't got rid my rifles. Is rather have a bit more barrel life. That being said I do pick a node near max load but I don't go over anymore. My target rifle I do shoot quite a bit and burned out a barrel in a year.

Thanks for the link - I'll read this one right away. I've been very interested to see how the Enduron line of powders stacks up against my old standby. Their anti-coppering agent may be a good thing in smaller cartridges that are used for high-volume shooting - like on a prairie dog or digger-squirrel shoot.

 

[tnek13]

IMR 4451 Enduron is what I ended up with in my 270 WSM after trying many of the powders listed. The bullets I ended up finding the best were Sierra BTHP (poor BC but great groups) and 140 Berger Classic Hunter (good BC and groups well but $$$) . Both bullets jump well, as my magazine limits COAL, as long as the rounds are concentric. Hodgdon's Webb site has charge weight info for their products and 4451 will work in the 280AI. Handloading is a fun hobby / obsesion - Welcome.

 

[skipglo]

Hey everyone.

Got a few quesitons. My dad shoots a Cooper excalibur M52 (24" barrel 1:9 twist I believe) in 280AI and I shoot a Tikka T3 lite stainless 270WSM.

He is heading up my way to visit for a couple weeks and we wanted to learn to reload together.

We currently both shoot Hornady Precision Hunter factory ammo with the ELD-X and they group really well in both guns. (Half to 3/4 MOA at 400 yards on a calm day). So factory ammo works well but for cost and fun we want to reload basically.

Anyways the questions are:

1. Research seems to show that there is a whole whack of powders people shoot for each one, but one that both seem to say allow higher muzzle velocity and still gets recommendations for both calibers is RL-19. Just want to confirm this would be an ok choice for both of our guns?

2. The .277 bullet for me is the 145gr ELD-X and for him it is the 162Gr ELD-X. My barrel is 10" twist and his 9". Would these be ok within 500 yards for stabilization?

3. For my gun, I tried to measure the lands but they are WAY fuckin out there on the Tikka. As in I couldn't even properly crimp the bullet in the shell if I did 0.050 off the lands, never mind fit it in the magazine. So the jump is going to be huge. Now the factory ammo seems to shoot under an MOA but I've heard that large jumps are less good on secant ogive bullets like the ELD-X and it is better to use tangent ogive (like say a Barnes LRX) when there is a big jump. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks for your help everyonne. I'm not quite a long range hunter (most of my shots are in the 300-400 range) but this is a great forum so figured you guys would know your ----.

Take a look at H4350 temp stable for both

 

[2506]

Not crimping, I just mean like the bullet is barely in the cartridge on the Tikka, the lands are just so far out there. 0.05 off the lands and the bullet would be like 1/18th inch into the brass.

Can you recommend why RL23 would be better than RL19 for our guns? None of the manuals I have even lists it as a recommendation?

 

[PApa Black]

Hey everyone.

Got a few quesitons. My dad shoots a Cooper excalibur M52 (24" barrel 1:9 twist I believe) in 280AI and I shoot a Tikka T3 lite stainless 270WSM.

He is heading up my way to visit for a couple weeks and we wanted to learn to reload together.

We currently both shoot Hornady Precision Hunter factory ammo with the ELD-X and they group really well in both guns. (Half to 3/4 MOA at 400 yards on a calm day). So factory ammo works well but for cost and fun we want to reload basically.

Anyways the questions are:

1. Research seems to show that there is a whole whack of powders people shoot for each one, but one that both seem to say allow higher muzzle velocity and still gets recommendations for both calibers is RL-19. Just want to confirm this would be an ok choice for both of our guns?

2. The .277 bullet for me is the 145gr ELD-X and for him it is the 162Gr ELD-X. My barrel is 10" twist and his 9". Would these be ok within 500 yards for stabilization?

3. For my gun, I tried to measure the lands but they are WAY fuckin out there on the Tikka. As in I couldn't even properly crimp the bullet in the shell if I did 0.050 off the lands, never mind fit it in the magazine. So the jump is going to be huge. Now the factory ammo seems to shoot under an MOA but I've heard that large jumps are less good on secant ogive bullets like the ELD-X and it is better to use tangent ogive (like say a Barnes LRX) when there is a big jump. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks for your help everyonne. I'm not quite a long range hunter (most of my shots are in the 300-400 range) but this is a great forum so figured you guys would know your ----.

I use this calculator on every caliber this may help you: https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

 

[Raudy707]

Try some H1000 or Retumbo.

 

[blkdog]

Just to be clear, you mean 2" at 500 I hope. Because 2MOA is like a 10" group at 500 yrds and you would have something seriously wrong if you are going from a ragged hole at 100" to 10" at 500......

oops yes 2" at 500