sw282
Well-Known Member
For ME, it was always using too much lube
Reloading advice
- Thread starter J.Hamb
- Start date
Two things:
1. Full length resize then trim all cases to length. Ensure the sizing die is bottomed out on the shell holder/plate plus a bit of over camber from the handle-1/8 turn of the die after the die is fully bottomed on the upstroke of the cam. Aggressively chamfer and normally deburr so the outside of the case is clean but no bevel. a tiny bit of bevel on the inside is OK. See if your bullets will barely go into the case with a lot of hard hand pressure. They shouldn't slide right in but barely fit of the bottom of the bullet into the case. If there is no way you can do this without the press, the brass thickness of the neck may be causing higher neck tension which could lead to shoulder deformation during bullet seating. You do not need a crimp on these bullets in a .308 bolt gun. Using the bullets you've selected you may need to change brass.
2. I note you're using different powders with different bullets...this complicates the loading process and the down select of components. I adopted the following technique about ten years ago (after 30 yrs of reloading prior) and it helped streamline the process. Look in the manuals for the bullets selected. Try to find the powder across manuals that gives the highest velocity without being a compressed load or going over 95% loading density for all the bullets. If there is an "accuracy" load listed that is not near the max, try 1.5 grs less than that load with all the bullets you want to test. Shoot all the rounds with everything equal except the bullets. One bullet will clearly shoot better than the others, so you are 2/3 of the way home. Then you proceed with load development with that bullet, tweaking powder charge, primers, seating depth, neck tension etc. You may even switch powders and that bullet should still shoot well if you hit a good match of burn rate and loading density. This process saved me a LOT of time and really simplified the process.
1. Full length resize then trim all cases to length. Ensure the sizing die is bottomed out on the shell holder/plate plus a bit of over camber from the handle-1/8 turn of the die after the die is fully bottomed on the upstroke of the cam. Aggressively chamfer and normally deburr so the outside of the case is clean but no bevel. a tiny bit of bevel on the inside is OK. See if your bullets will barely go into the case with a lot of hard hand pressure. They shouldn't slide right in but barely fit of the bottom of the bullet into the case. If there is no way you can do this without the press, the brass thickness of the neck may be causing higher neck tension which could lead to shoulder deformation during bullet seating. You do not need a crimp on these bullets in a .308 bolt gun. Using the bullets you've selected you may need to change brass.
2. I note you're using different powders with different bullets...this complicates the loading process and the down select of components. I adopted the following technique about ten years ago (after 30 yrs of reloading prior) and it helped streamline the process. Look in the manuals for the bullets selected. Try to find the powder across manuals that gives the highest velocity without being a compressed load or going over 95% loading density for all the bullets. If there is an "accuracy" load listed that is not near the max, try 1.5 grs less than that load with all the bullets you want to test. Shoot all the rounds with everything equal except the bullets. One bullet will clearly shoot better than the others, so you are 2/3 of the way home. Then you proceed with load development with that bullet, tweaking powder charge, primers, seating depth, neck tension etc. You may even switch powders and that bullet should still shoot well if you hit a good match of burn rate and loading density. This process saved me a LOT of time and really simplified the process.
Horse1
Well-Known Member
It's not the sizing die. It is as "SCVOJTA" has said, the seating die is into the press too far.
An awful lot of folks don't realize you can use pretty much any seater to also crimp, you don't NEED a special crimping die, though they're easier to dial in the crimp you want.
J.Hamb has his seater turned into the press far enough that he's morphed a normal seating die into the:
"Crimp-Master 6000." The Crimp-Master 6000 offers a double crimp, one @ the case-mouth and a 2nd to snuggle the boat-tail and nozzle-reduce the flow-pattern of the burning powder gasses. The Crimp-Master 6000 negates neck-turning by swedging off excess neck-diameter brass and lastly creates a more acute angle and shorter bearing surface on the case shoulder offering some benefit I can't come up with a pithy analogy for.
J.Hamb, I'm not picking on you with the above statement, I hope you're not offended, that's not my intent. Rather, I'm trying to get folks to look past the sizing die and my reasoning why. I've done precisely what you've got going on. Sometimes it's been trying to dial in a little crimp for loads to be fired through a semi-auto where I don't want a compressed powder load to "grow" in COAL and end up sticking in the magazine below where they can reliably feed. More often, it's been because I've swapped dies from a Dillon or RCBS press into my Forester while brain-farting the part where you MUST reset the die depth or you end up with the pics from your OP or worse.
It's very well possible that is what the issue is with the seater being screwed in too far. Seating dies however do not do a "collet" type crimp though. They do a rolling crimp.
Going from left to right, if you look at the number 2 piece there is still a partial collet crimp on the neck, and if you look at the last piece on the left, there is a obvious collet crimp in the brass which would cause issues when seating the bullet. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong but just pointing out an obvious that could be contributing to the issue.
Horse1
Well-Known Member
If you've got the seater in far enough to cam-over on the ram (like many would have with the sizer), it absolutely WILL swage the neck, crimp the mouth and boat-tail, and crush the shoulder.
I've done it more times than I'd care to admit when assuming seating dies were ready to go in my Co-Ax only to find out they'd last been in a Dillon or Rock Chucker.....
The pics are a standard RCBS .375H&H seater in the "Crimp-Master 4000" seating position. You can see the cannelure and the base of the projectile. The shoulder has just enough crush starting that it's wider than the taper of the case and won't allow these rounds to be chambered.
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SCVOJTA
Well-Known Member
Personally I dont crimp my rifle stuff. However most my loading is for competitive LR shooting. If he is using non bushing dies and NOT turning necks down, most standard FL dies will allow plenty of neck tension and crimping might be over kill. Of course there are those few hard kicker magnums and hard to chamber from a magazine style gun that might say otherwise.....BUT I suggest he take his seater and close the ram on a piece of brass without a bullet...and he should feel NO resistance at all. If he does, he has it in way too far or something else going on.
Now we are assuming he has brass that is not exceeding OAL dimensions. Different lengths brass can lead to issues IF he has it that close to touching.
Anyways...Good luck! We all have screwed up learning....hence the conception of bullet pullers!! LOL. It will come and you will be glad you stuck with it!
Now we are assuming he has brass that is not exceeding OAL dimensions. Different lengths brass can lead to issues IF he has it that close to touching.
Anyways...Good luck! We all have screwed up learning....hence the conception of bullet pullers!! LOL. It will come and you will be glad you stuck with it!
Horse1
Well-Known Member
Agreed. The pics above are a couple decades old ammo, crimped because:
"I read somewhere".
It's the only 2 remaining of the lot I just could't get to chamber no matter what. I keep them around as a reminder/cautionary tale.
Lee Goodwin
Well-Known Member
Look at resized brass before you seat the bullet and after....I think I have crushed shoulders with a bullet seater before...
It was nice meeting with you today. Now that you know where I work, stop by anytime. Feel free to call, text, or e-mail me any questions/concerns you might have.
Ed
