Redding bushing dies

[Gene Allen]

Hello: I have a couple of questions on the Redding bushing dies C-1 type S FL sizer for a 300 win, I am using regular Peterson brass. I am currently using an old RCBS BAR fl from when I had a Browning 300 auto & a RCBS neck die till my brass expands enough to need bumping and a Redding competition seating die. I am having a problem with run out sometimes as much as .007, I am wondering if the new die when I get it will cure this problem? Any advice on use of the new die wou be greatly appreciate, I also ordered.333, .334 and .335 bushings. I am using 208gr Berger hibrid bullets. Thanks Gene

 

[marchboom]

I used a Redding Type S bushing die on my 22-250 AI brass and the runout was between .003" and .005". This was from fire formed brass. This runout was on the inside too. Flipped the bushing over and the results were the same. I used my Forster FL die and the runout was .0005" to .001". I have since had Forster hone out several FL dies and the runout is hardly nothing. So now I will always use Forster FL dies without a bushing. And I really wanted the bushing dies to work too.

 

[.30-06]

I just measured sized neck wall thickness and runout with a Neck Bushing die, the thickness is more consistent than mandrels, the runout is .003 on the neck with a seated bullet. I just emailed Redding and told them what I got.

 

[Mikecr]

The root cause of runout for us is thickness variance of the brass.
The initiator/amplifier is sizing. More sizing of thickness variance = more runout.

If your brass has low thickness runout, and your bushing is sizing a reasonable amount (not excessive), and you use a separate mandrel die for neck expansion, you can produce very low TIR.

 

[Gene Allen]

The root cause of runout for us is thickness variance of the brass.
The initiator/amplifier is sizing. More sizing of thickness variance = more runout.

If your brass has low thickness runout, and your bushing is sizing a reasonable amount (not excessive), and you use a separate mandrel die for neck expansion, you can produce very low TIR.

Could this be a problem with this batch of brass or the caliber, for instance I use Redding dies & Peterson brass for my 6.5 & have very little runout, also not nearly the runout in my STW with Nosler brass!

 

[.30-06]

The root cause of runout for us is thickness variance of the brass.
The initiator/amplifier is sizing. More sizing of thickness variance = more runout.

If your brass has low thickness runout, and your bushing is sizing a reasonable amount (not excessive), and you use a separate mandrel die for neck expansion, you can produce very low TIR.

Along the way I thought about the the turned brass doing better. We'll see what it does at the range. However... the wall thickness is only .001 to a .0005 on my unturned brass. Had a bench rest shooter tell me unturned necks are solved by bushings. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Mikecr]

Could this be a problem with this batch of brass or the caliber, for instance I use Redding dies & Peterson brass for my 6.5 & have very little runout, also not nearly the runout in my STW with Nosler brass!

Do you have a neck/ball mic for measuring thickness?
With this you can see how much thickness variance you have with that brass.

You can also measure loaded neck OD, and then sized neck OD to see how much you're sizing.
That will tell you how much you're sizing what thickness variance.

Then there is the expander button. These can pull necks off center.
Remove or turn down the button portion to defeat it.
Pick up an expander die with mandrel to cover the expansion function in a way that contributes near nothing to neck runout, and can reduce loaded runout as seen on bullets.

Thickness variance runs from case mouths all the way to webs. So heavy FL sizing will bring this variance into play full length.
You end up pulling bananas out of your die.
If you need FL sizing then you can get a custom FL die made to reduce sizing to less than excess, or,, you can measure thickness variance of each case and cull out those with a lot of variance. Just throw them away.
Making straight & stable ammo takes either a plan, or pure luck.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I've just started to use Redding bushing FL dies. I've been adding to my collection as I go. Changing out of RCBS Dies of either FL or Neck dies. Things I do. I cut all my new case to one length out of the box. I don't do anything else. Then I set up and cut the neck to thickness all the same. With my 6mm/280AI I am using Peterson 280AI brass New. I have found a variances in COAL in the case of about .006 between long and short. I cut to the shortest dimension. Trimmed for thickness all the same, which was .026" over the .284". Reduced the neck 4 times to size to .0241" I.D. to get 002" neck tension.
Now if the brass is fired, I size and use a mandrel to push the un-even thickness to the outside, then cut neck wall thickness. That way you are done with having to use a mandrel again and again. By using the bushing, I am able to achieve the tension I am after so far. I may change that after awhile.
What I fail to see is why there seem to be, so much reissuances to cutting the necks to thickness. I feel like that's a bad word. Each time you push the irregular thickness to the outside of the neck. You haven't really taken care of the problem. You just push it to the outside. Yes the bullet is straighter, but when the round is fired you still kick the bullet to one side or the other in the chamber. Cocking the bullet one way or another. Once you have cut that neck thickness the case it done. It's getting the correct bushing to set the ID of the neck (so far that has worked for me). Just trimming to length as needed and size. I not leaving out all the other steps need, because I didn't state them. Just dealing with the neck and even thickness.
Please tell where I am wrong. Because you are working your brass again and again to correct problems that only requires one step at the start, and not have to use a mandrel to set the ID, and straight in the neck for setting the bullet. I have a Wilson blank seating die, that I have cut to seat my bullets with.
Again tell me where that wrong. I am still learning at 74.

 

[Old Rooster]

I too use Redding bushing dies in 300 win mag and have .001 to .002 run out with Peterson Long brass I measure with a mic,not a caliper as a caliper measures a broader surface than a mic.Using a quality mandel puts all the irregularaties on the outside of the necks and not on the inside so it looks worse than it is.
Just my thoughts and my wife tells me I am wrong most of the time

 

[Gene Allen]

I too use Redding bushing dies in 300 win mag and have .001 to .002 run out with Peterson Long brass I measure with a mic,not a caliper as a caliper measures a broader surface than a mic.Using a quality mandel puts all the irregularaties on the outside of the necks and not on the inside so it looks worse than it is.
Just my thoughts and my wife tells me I am wrong most of the time

It sounds like some people use the Redding bushing dies & have pretty good luck so I will see if it helps me, I did measure the OD of sized brass and loaded brass .335-.336 with bullet .336.5- .337 it doesn't seem like much tension so I also crimp, and I do use the Hornady concentricity tool to keep my runout to .001-.002, it's just some are far enough off the are hard to get rid off runout. Thanks to all who responded to my question.

I too use Redding bushing dies in 300 win mag and have .001 to .002 run out with Peterson Long brass I measure with a mic,not a caliper as a caliper measures a broader surface than a mic.Using a quality mandel puts all the irregularaties on the outside of the necks and not on the inside so it looks worse than it is.
Just my thoughts and my wife tells me I am wrong most of the time

 

[QuietTexan]

I use Redding bushing dies. They aren't going to fix any cases that have had runout induced already, but might not cause you issues if you run good cases through them going forward.

If you're going to spend time checking concentricity, I'd upgrade your tool to something better than the Hornady. A dial indicator and the tip-to-base hold method isn't the best tool for taking the measurement:

Concentricity Gauge with Wheel and Indicator

Uses industry standard concentricity indicator Measures bullet runout, neck, body case mouth and inside neck concentricity Accommodates cartridges up to .50bmg Adjustable case stop Wheel eliminates error, holds case on roller bearings ensuring accurate measurement Deviations in...

21stcenturyinnovation.com

Modifications to Hornady Concentricity Tool - The Reloaders Network

There are many people that use the Hornady Concentricity Tool. It is a good basic tool and has its strengths and weaknesses. Let's address several of those weaknesses with a few modifications.

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[.30-06]

If the bullet spindal on the Hornday gauge has movement then the case head spindle is too tight against the case which is against the bullet spindal. Other than that, this gauge needs no mods. Other than the jack screw to push the bullet, easily can be fixed. The case can be checked for concentricity before the bullet is seated, with thier pilot kit. Neck tension? Not likely. I can get .001 bullet runout without making any mods to my tool. I get .001 runout at the base of the case.... .0005 on each side really???? a Human hair is .004. Let's be practical. Many benchrest shooters leave .004 bullet runout and still achieve the accuracy they want. I'm sure any tool can't be picked apart but is it really necessary?

 

[Mikecr]

The Hornady sux in every regard. But that's another thread.

 

[QuietTexan]

I can get .001 bullet runout without making any mods to my tool.

You can see the tool indicate 0.001" runout without any mods. That doesn't mean that the reading is real, but rather what the tool is capable of resolving. False precision doesn't change the true accuracy of the tool.